EP 46: Neurodivergent Superpowers with Anya Lautenbach A.K.A The Garden Fairy
Please excuse any errors as this transcript has been computer generated.
Dr Olivia Kessel Host00:07
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. In this episode, we will be speaking with Anya Lottenbach, known as the Garden Fairy on Instagram and Facebook, with over a million followers. She is a digital creator and passionate gardener who's discovered solace and purpose through gardening. She will share with us her journey as an adult to a diagnosis of ADHD and how this has really changed her world and enabled her to harness her superpower, to learn English and to go on to write and publish a global horticultural book. She's extremely passionate and committed to raising awareness and champion neurodiversity.
01:29
Welcome, anya. It is such a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast. I am really looking forward today to hearing about your journey with neurodiversity and how you've really harnessed it as your superpower. Can you tell us a little bit about that journey, because I know you were diagnosed as an adult. Most of my listeners, some of them, they've had children that are diagnosed and then they become diagnosed, but it would be really interesting to hear what was your journey.
Anya LautenbachGuest01:57
Yes, it's a very typical. First of all, thank you so much for inviting me. On my social media channels I raise awareness about neurodiversity, in particular ADHD, which I have, and trait of autism. I'm also a mom of wonderfully and I really make sure that people hear it well wonderfully dyslexic child. My son has been diagnosed when he was nine and, as in many situations and I'm sure many parents would agree that when your child is being diagnosed you start noticing things and you are more aware of yourself and you often see yourself in that child and the question usually comes to your mind who am I? Neurodivergent myself and, as we now know, neurodiversity can come from parents, from grandparents, so it's often the case that parents find themselves being diagnosed, just as I was in adulthood after my son's diagnosis.
Dr Olivia KesselHost03:09
There's a huge genetic heritability with neurodiversity. I know my father has ADHD, my brother has ADHD undiagnosed but, as you say, looking backwards it's quite evident my daughter's the only one that's got the formal diagnosis. But depending on autism or ADHD, the numbers get high as 80 is 90%, which is refreshing because historically neurodiversity was looked at well, is it the parents fault? Is it we're not managing the children correctly? No, it's how we're wired and I love how you describe your son he's wonderfully dyslexic. I'm wonderfully dyslexic, absolutely.
Anya LautenbachGuest03:50
And yes, as you say, we used to see, and even in many cases now we still refer to it as a fault, or someone has got ADHD and people's reaction is usually oh, it must be hard. And you know I am the opposite. You know I see the positivity that comes with it. Obviously, not only positivity, there are challenges, but I'm trying to show people both sides of neurodiversity.
Dr Olivia KesselHost04:28
Yeah, and I think that it's. You know, like anything in life there's positive and negatives, and with neurodiversity there's positive and negatives. But I agree that that stigma kind of oh, you know and I have to be honest, you know, even though I am neurodiverse, I didn't really I didn't, I didn't acknowledge it or understand it. I was able to do that through my daughter and I think you have a similar story is that through your son and introspection you were able to understand it more, because it wasn't a thing in my childhood, you know.
Anya LautenbachGuest05:00
Absolutely, absolutely. And I grew up in Poland in the 80s, so you know our life was. It was lovely, my childhood was lovely and it was quite simple, but obviously being very naughty. And I was a very naughty, bad behavior child, you know, and if you look at my social media you know people see me only as the lovely garden fairy growing flowers. But I was labeled and I see labels as something positive. But at that point being labeled this naughty and really bad behaved girl was really disappointing for my family and I left home feeling like I was a general disappointment because, you know even and I'm sure many people can feel the same but I was always referred to as a she's very clever, but she's too lazy and it's so.
06:02
There's a classic kind of phrase, you know, of clever, there's lots of potential, but she's lazy and bad behaved, and that's how I left home, and it's such a shame that that is still the case nowadays and that's why I raise awareness about it, because I want more children to leave school feeling great about themselves and not like the major disappointment.
Dr Olivia KesselHost06:27
Yeah, exactly, and it's understanding what's going on. So and I know you have you've discussed another podcast about how you view your neurodiversity, or your ADHD with autism traits, as a superpower, so maybe share with us. I think we need to look at both sides of the coin, so the superpower part of it, but then also the challenging parts of it. So I'd love to hear your, your take on it.
Anya LautenbachGuest06:52
Yes, so I came to England 13 years ago and I still remember, obviously, flying from Poland and I, a friend, picked me up and he said how was your journey? He became my friend, but at that point, you know, I didn't know him very well, but he asked me in English it was 13 years ago and he said how was your journey? And I couldn't understand what he said. I really wanted to learn English. So only 13 years ago I couldn't really speak English and my brain absorbed all that information. But you know, obviously speaking another language is not a big deal, but I have only yes, it is.
07:35
Yeah, I mean, you know it really is, but only recently I have written a book and I have every sentence is mine, and when I finished the book, I just couldn't believe it. And it's a horticultural book, so it's all about growing plants. And so many people asked me how did you learn? Because I used to work as a translator, german translator. I also speak German, so I don't know how it happened it. My brain simply absorbed information, something that I was interested in, and obviously I turned it into a business. I became an influencer and when I look back, it was only 13 years ago that I could not understand the sentence. How was your journey? And now?
Dr Olivia KesselHost08:29
you've written a book.
Anya LautenbachGuest08:31
And I can tell you very well about my journey, obviously now in English and so, and you know. Another thing is I cannot sit down and read a book because I'm so. I constantly get distracted and the world is changing and it's so uplifting and so positive for people to know that, even if we struggle with reading because of certain reasons for me is being distracted that doesn't stop you, as a neurodivergent person, to reach your, you know, the top. For some people it will mean, oh, she has achieved so much. Nothing will stop you as a neurodivergent person.
Dr Olivia KesselHost09:12
It's so true, and there's so many different ways and there's so much technology now that can assist you. Do you know? There's audio books, like there's dictation. There's so many tools now that you can harness to meet those needs.
Anya LautenbachGuest09:26
Absolutely, Absolutely. But you know, we will all find our way to even neurotypical people. You know they can read and they, but they will never have the superpowers that neurodivergent people have, and that is something so positive for neurodivergent people to know.
Dr Olivia KesselHost09:45
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, our brains work faster. We think outside the box. There's so much positivity in there. That is a strength that maybe you know it can be used in different ways Everyone has. Neurotypical people have their strengths, neurodiverse people have their strengths, and it's how we fit together in the puzzle of life that really matters, because there's a place for all of us, I think. And in terms of the challenges that you face, because there are challenges as well, and I think this you know, you've mentioned one which is difficulty to focus attention, which is it can be challenging. I know I see it in my daughter as well. When I ask her to go brush her teeth and as she goes up the stairs, she sees, you know, oh, this looks very interesting and that looks very interesting. And oh, mommy, did you see how these two things fit together?
Anya LautenbachGuest10:32
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely. So this is our challenge. And you know, when you get diagnosed and that's why I promote the diagnosis as an assessment. So much on social media, because it's information, and it's information is power. So, whether it's you or your child, you have so much more understanding about the challenges that we are facing and in as we get older.
11:01
Obviously, as adults, we have the freedom of leaving our desk. So if I work at home, I can just stand up, I can walk around my room, I can go outside, I can feed my brain with some positive thoughts by looking at nature. But if you think of children sitting in the classroom all day long, and if they stand up, like I used to do when I was a little girl, they get in trouble. So knowing that really helps us, and this is a challenge. Of course, it's a challenge Even for me.
11:35
You know, I constantly see things around me and obviously growing plants, and I'm very much into flowers, so I constantly get distracted. But knowing that that is my problem makes me more aware of it and I can deal with it better, because I understand that I have millions of thoughts per minute. But then I go back to my time when I was assessed when I had my counseling with ADHD clinic and I know that this is what I'm doing because that's how my brain is wired. So I just blocked that and think okay, anja, let's just focus on this one task. If I wouldn't be diagnosed and assessed and diagnosed, I would have not known. I would feel the sense of no sense of achievement at the end of the day because I would be constantly distracted, not knowing why and blaming myself, which might have led to depression and other mental health issues. But knowing it really helps me deal with my challenges.
Dr Olivia KesselHost12:41
No, absolutely. And when you look back on your childhood where you were labeled a lot naughty kid and stuff like that, that would A lot of self doubt and chip away at your, your confidence and create anxiety in terms of not knowing. I find that, you know, unfortunately for some parents they are somewhat reluctance or Unable to get a diagnosis because of the system. But you know there's there afraid that it's gonna put a label on their child and create a stigma on the child is really actually very interesting.
13:14
Another Podcast, or dr Marianne, who's been on our show. Her daughter has autism and she got diagnosed in university and she did great podcast because she was against getting her daughter diagnosed and she said I didn't want to put a label on my daughter because it could be self-proficing, which she said. I've actually had to realize that I wasn't doing what was right for my daughter because her daughter, now that she's been diagnosed as having autism, is like I get it like and now I can find my tribe and this. This explains so much to me. It's a you know, it's a part of me and now it everything makes sense, you know.
Anya LautenbachGuest13:53
Do you know, I X. I came up with this little story about cash me a cardigan and this is how I explain a diagnosis, assessment and a diagnosis to people on my social media channels. If you buy a cash me a cardigan and you wash it in 60 degrees because the cash me a cardigan lost the label, we all know what will happen to the cash me a cardigan. It will lose on fluffiness. It will become the size of a ready for a toddler and it's not as fluffy as a lovely cardigan. If you have the label and you look at the label and you turn it around and you read and you say, okay, 30 degrees. You know, only don't tumble dry it, absolutely not.
14:39
The cash me a cardigan will stay lovely and fluffy and you will get what do you expect from a cash me a cardigan? And that's how I see children at school that are being, that aren't being diagnosed. They are just like cash me a cardigan and are shrinking and people find it suddenly. It makes so much sense to people. You don't have to walk around with that label hanging on your, on your cash me a cardigan, so everybody can read it, because it doesn't matter for those people, but you know how to wash your cardigan, and that is the same with yourself and it's with your children. You just know what to do with them and they just stay lovely and fluffy. And they not. They just love me. You know what I mean.
Dr Olivia KesselHost15:27
Yeah, they're able to reach their potential and be the, you know, the oh. That's such a lovely analogy, absolutely love. It is a brilliant way to look at it, you know, because ultimately that's what all parents want is to have their child child grow and, you know, reach their potential. And, as you say, the label doesn't have to be right on the front of the jacket, and that's what kind of some of the fear there is, like, oh, this is gonna Tarn them with the, with the brush.
Anya LautenbachGuest15:54
You know, I mean label information. Information is power.
Dr Olivia KesselHost15:59
Yeah, and you know it's really interesting is, you know, big employers now are looking for people with the label of neurodiversity because they know that if, given the right environment and the right structure in place, they actually, you know, outperform and have really creative and out of the box ideas which, once you get out of school, which doesn't want you to think out of the box and doesn't want you to be creative, the world, the workforce, that's what they want.
Anya LautenbachGuest16:25
Yes, but the good news is that the world is changing and you know it was my son who, at the age of three I'm, was so fascinated by evolution. But the school wasn't interested in dad because they are being measured on. You know he was not on level, purple level, and he had to be on orange level for reading and writing. Nobody cared about evolution of hearing from a three years old. But that is so typical and now I see it in children. You know it's usually a very clever, very you know the deep thinkers, but they not unexpected level and people and parents in particular get really. You know it's a challenge for them because that child is not doing what other children are doing. But that should be a really positive thing because you know that your child will do some amazing things later in life.
Dr Olivia KesselHost17:25
Yeah, it's almost like you have to, and I've had to do this myself. I don't know if you had to do it with your son. I had to kind of break my perceptions of what my child was going to be like and what school was going to be like. I've actually completely destroyed what I thought because I thought, oh, my child's going to do this, they're going to meet all this, they're going to do exceptionally well and actually no, they're going to go their own path, they're going to teach me how to be a better mother and they're going to learn the way they want to learn. And in fact, she's taught me more than I've ever learned myself and I have a medical degree. Absolutely.
Anya LautenbachGuest17:58
Absolutely. I just do you know, when my son was diagnosed, I actually felt like I wouldn't swap with anyone. Obviously there are challenges, but I want him to be that wonderfully dyslexic child. I'm fascinated by his brain. I cannot wait to see what he will do with his life, and I'm pretty sure he will do some amazing things.
Dr Olivia KesselHost18:23
You know, and it is having that faith that is so important and having that belief that is so important, and I think you know it is an amazing to hear your passion for this. Now you came over to England and you have you're better known, because my list might not be gardeners, I don't know but you're known as the Garden Fairy on Instagram and you have a massive following, I think over 300,000 followers, which is, just, you know, stratospheric. How does nature help you with your neurodiversity and how can it help others?
Anya LautenbachGuest19:02
Yes, I mean, you know it's actually. I have to say, it surprised me recently that I have over a million followers now on Facebook and Instagram together. Oh my, gosh, I'm sorry, I'm underselling you, oh no no, don't worry, Don't worry, I actually only recently realized because I neglected Facebook and then one day I went on Facebook and I realized I have over 600,000 followers. So I'm obviously, you know, now doing both, both platforms, and it's amazing because obviously I can raise awareness and I can help so many, so many children.
19:37
What helps me? Obviously, understanding my ADHD and how.
19:41
you know we chase the dopamine, so we want that positivity that comes and it very often doesn't end up well, because, you know, a lot of ADHD people suffer from alcohol and drug abuse. You know, the problem is much bigger than most people think for the society, because we are just trying desperately to get that positivity from somewhere. And for me, I've tried medication, I've done a lot of ADHD counseling and I tried to understand why is it that this gardening, the journey that I'm on, is so amazing for me. What is it that it makes me feel so chilled and so happy? And at the end of the day I feel a great sense of achievement, almost the same level as you get from being on medication.
20:37
And what I realized is the progress and also the development and that sense of achievement from seeing something thrive. You know, and that I'm sure it goes back to our roots, that humans get positivity from seeing food, you know, from seeing a clutch of eggs, and I constantly read about it. Is it really that makes us feel so good, that when you see plants growing that they give you so much positivity? And it really is the case. And that's why gardening and creating gardens is so good for neurodivergent people, because it's almost like you tick your boxes outside your brain creates that positivity and you feel good about yourself. So that is what I feel on daily basis.
Dr Olivia KesselHost21:30
I mean it stands to reason and I know they do little gardening projects at school but to bring gardening into schools more as well. You know where kids can actually go out and get that kind of positive feedback, get those dopamine levels up, get the serotonin going be outside with the sunshine, the vitamin D. There's so much positivity there and, like you say, you see success.
Anya LautenbachGuest21:54
Yes, absolutely so. It all connects. You know also propagation, because I'm very much into propagation and you know it's so simple. Children could do it on their window sills. That's how I did it when I was a little girl, and it's just, it takes so many boxes, especially for neurodivergent children.
Dr Olivia KesselHost22:15
You know it's funny. It just popped into my head because my daughter actually said to me the other day she goes, mommy, I really want to have a plant. And I was like, what do you mean? You want to have a plant? She goes I want to have a plant that I can raise. Being the great mother that I am, have I gotten her a plant?
Anya LautenbachGuest22:28
No, but this is you must get her a plant After our chat. You must get a plant.
Dr Olivia KesselHost22:34
I will, I will, you know, and sometimes we need to list some more as parents to our children, but you know it is, it's a really healthy way to get dopamine and it's a way to, you know, avoid those negative ways of getting dopamine. And I've talked to other podcast guests too. You know there's ways you can do it with food, there's ways you can do it with exercise, but it's being cognizant also of that fact that, as an ADHD person, you need that dopamine, you know, and being able to get it in a healthy manner.
Anya LautenbachGuest23:04
Absolutely, absolutely, and it's also you know the meaning. It's meaningful and I find it that you know this short lived dose of dopamine that comes from you know all sorts of negative stuff is not as meaningful and is not as powerful as just something related to nature.
Dr Olivia KesselHost23:25
Well, you know, it's also interesting about that there's actually a physiological reason for that. So when you take a substance to, that makes you release dopamine. What your body does internally is it says okay, I don't actually need to make dopamine and I don't actually need to have so many receptors for dopamine because it's coming externally. So actually you deplete your ability for you as yourself to produce dopamine and you decrease your dopamine receptors so that they don't interact as well with even dopamine that you're taking, whether that be alcohol or food or drugs. So it's it really has a negative effect taking external stimulus for dopamine versus you internally producing it. And when you do stuff like go outside and garden or go for a long walk or exercise, you actually increase your dopamine receptors, which we lose. We lose even if you're not, even if you're not neurodiverse. Just getting old, you lose your dopamine receptors. So by doing those things, going outside, you actually increase the amount of receptors you have, so you can feel happier. It's amazing, isn't it?
Anya LautenbachGuest24:29
It is amazing, and you know, the more we talk about it the better, because not many people understand that and it's, you know, it's it will make such a difference to so many lives and to the society in general.
Dr Olivia KesselHost24:42
Yeah, absolutely, because it's. It's not something to be feared, it's something to be understood, as we've discussed today. It's something to harness the superpowers with, and then also to understand what your challenges are and what you need to put in place, what tools you need to put in place to be able to navigate those challenges.
Anya LautenbachGuest25:02
Totally and you know, as our children grow as parents, knowing that having that information is so useful, because you offer them other ways of getting that positivity and that dopamine and you prevent them from going in or choosing the wrong path.
Dr Olivia KesselHost25:20
Yeah, absolutely so. Thank you so much, onia, for being on the show today, and I would love to ask you, as I ask all my guests, what would be your three top tips that you would give to parents to take away after listening to this podcast.
Anya LautenbachGuest25:39
One of the things is always seeing your neurodivergent condition as your superpower. Just imagine walking into a room of people and your superpower is almost like a set of wings and you have them, but other people don't, and that is your superpower. The other one is always remember that things will change. So even if you in a very tough situation because of your child's struggles and your own struggles, always think that your situation will change, because everything in this world is changing. And the last one try to offer as many things to your children and to yourself, as many hobbies to try, because you never know which one will become the true passion, and that true passion can become a new thing, something positive in your life. So always try as many things as possible to find your passion.
Dr Olivia KesselHost26:38
Yeah, that's a really good three. Really good tips there and words to live by. So thank you, onia. It's been a pleasure having you on the show today. Oh, thank you so much. Thank you so much for inviting me. It was lovely chatting to you. Thank you for listening Send parenting tribe. I feel truly inspired by Onia's story and how all our children, given the right tools and, dare I say, labels, can achieve anything. If you haven't already, please leave a review on your preferred podcast platform and follow us on send parenting podcast on Instagram, wishing you and your family a week where you spend some time out in the garden.
