Automated Transcript Episode 11
Episode 11: A Dad’s Perspective of Autism
Guest Speaker: Matt Davis
Please excuse any errors as this transcript has been automatically generated
Matt Davis:
My biggest advice is just to try and let things go a little of what you might expect and never know what's around the corner. There's a great paradox, I've said this before, with autism, I think when you are a parent you need to plan every day because routine and rigidity are fairly common traits among young autistic people. But the paradox is, yeah, I have got a plan this next week, but who knows what will be, where we will be in six months time. And I've kind of always tried to live with that. You have to think about, think about the next week, but thinking beyond then is something to try and not get too obsessed with. So I didn't know that Isaac would be doing all this stuff when he is 15.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast, focused on supporting, inspiring and empowering parents and their Neurodiverse children. I'm your Neurodiverse host, Dr. Olivia Kessel. We'll be speaking weekly with experts in the world of neurodiversity. No topic is too big or too small for us to discuss. We will include things like, how do you navigate education? How can you understand what your child's legal rights are to an education? Practical advice on neurodiversity, and most importantly, hearing the voices of other parents just like you. Looking forward to having you join us weekly as part of the Send Parenting Tribe.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
In this episode, we'll be speaking with Matt Davis about his autistic son, Isaac, this candid chat from a dad's perspective, from diagnosis education to the positive power of social media and technology to letting go of football. Matt takes us beyond the label to the potential. So welcome, Matt to the Send Parenting Podcast. It's a real pleasure to have you on the show. Generally, I really speak to moms and talking about their Neurodiverse children. In fact, you are the first father that we've had on the show, so it's really great to have a dad's perspective. I have really enjoyed reading and looking at the different aspects of your blog, my Son's Isaac, which has really been informative and it's a real way to look into what you've been experiencing and, you know, your life. I think you started it in 2010 if I, if my memory serves me correctly.
Matt Davis:
It was 2011. So yeah, it is a long time ago Yeah,
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
So it's <laugh>. So how did the blog start and how did that start with your journey with Isaac and how did the two kind of mesh together?
Matt Davis:
Sure, sure. Well, yeah, it's, uh, a privilege and a Deloitte to be on, so thanks very much for having me. I guess it started, I mean, Isaac was diagnosed in when he was three, which was actually 2000 beginning of 2011. So, and I think that those early days were obviously quite confused and I think we went through the emotions that a lot of parents go through, just the mixture of relief, uh, but mixed, mixed with, or we're gonna have a slightly different journey and a rapid learning curve. It was all kind of merged into one. And I think I, I mean, my, my job is a copywriter, so I do kind of play around with words, but it felt a natural place to start was just to try and write my way through it, if that doesn't sound too, um, grand.
Matt Davis:
I think the actual reason I started was we engaged with a charity called Ambitious about Autism quite early on, just because I'd heard of them previously and we kind of got in touch and they were supportive with information and empathy and education, and they had a kind of stories page that people wrote their experiences right from Young autistic people, parents, professionals, and I wrote my first experiences of what life was like and it morphed into a blog fairly quickly. And, and it's been great sort of therapeutic for myself, but it's also means a lot when other parents or autistic individuals or anyone really, or parents of non-autistic children read it and relate to it. And it's just been something that I've carried on doing. I do it less frequently, but I do try still to do every few months. I'm actually trying to, in the middle of do one, doing one now. But it's just been a good way of charting Isaac's progression, organizing my feelings, that sort of thing. So it's really that, um, it's quite a simple way of, uh, recording what's happening and how he changes as well. You know, I look back over it and he's changed and developed and pivoted in so many ways. It's kind of quite a nice kind of recording really of that as well. So that's the basic basis of it.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
It's, it's powerful though. I think, you know, journaling is a powerful form of therapy. And then also to make it public that then it can help other people as well. And then, as you say, also to have it as a almost, not a photo album, but kind of a photo album of your life together.
Matt Davis:
Yeah, exactly. That, it really is that. And, I was always very conscious that depending on how he developed, that he would know that I was doing it and also would be very content with what I was saying. So I try and put a filter on it all the time. And now he knows I write a blog and he's kind of happy with it. He helps often, he will, not necessarily consciously, but that, you know, he will talk about something and I'll say to him, oh, that's some kind of topic I might put in the blog, and when I put photos in, I make sure he's happy with it. But you're right, just chronicling it and journaling, which is something I've always done throughout my life, but in a very haphazard kind of way. But it's definitely helped, uh, organize our, my thoughts and just generally get a sense of what's happening really, uh, with Isaac and with autism and just being a dad. It feeds into all those areas. So it's something I hope to kind of carry on doing, and that, yeah, as, as long as Isaac's happy with me, but I am, you know, considerate of, confidentiality. So I don't say everything at all, but I say things that I think are important for him, for us, and stuff that I think other people will relate to as well.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Yeah, absolutely. And it's good to keep those kind of boundaries in mind when you're doing something like that. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey for those who haven't read the blog, about your journey with Isaac and what it's been like to be a, you know, from a dad's perspective?
Matt Davis:
Sure, yeah, no problem at all. So Isaac, so he's 15 now. He was diagnosed with autism in the beginning of 2011, so he was three and four months, and I think they're, the early story was, it was difficult from, he was missing milestones really from the age of kind of, I mean, me and my wife discuss it. We, we kind of can't put a point as to when we thought, this is not expect, you know, this is what we weren't expecting. He's my eldest child as well. So we didn't really have any reference points about developmental milestones. So in those early years when he was finding stuff difficult that other peers weren't, and it was basically down to communication. So from about the age of two, he didn't really have any language, and that's when we were advised to go and seek some sort of medical help or consultation. But he was also very late walking. And so there was just generally a sense of he didn't walk until he was two. So there was just a sense of, something's not quite typical here, let's investigate it. So for about a ye and the, the word autism then had no meaning in my life, I'd heard of it, and that was, was about it.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
So you had no preconceptions or, you know,
Matt Davis:
No, none. What's, no, none whatsoever. I think maybe the world, the world, as someone who's invested in autism and knows about it now, it feels there's a much more awareness now, particularly amongst adults. The fir the term neurodiversity as far as I'm aware, didn't really exist back in 2011. Whether a new parent now who has no awareness of autism would fear or, or you know, whether there is an awareness a about autism in the much broader world. Now, I'm not sure. I think there might be, but at the time I didn't know it at all. And even in, we basically started seeing kind of, um, we saw a pediatrician, we saw speech therapists from that year between his, just after he turned two and just bef just when he was diagnosed, autism was never really mentioned. There was talk of a global delay. There was, but there was no real diagnosis talk.
Matt Davis:
And, and, and indeed autism wasn't mentioned. So it was quite a, it was a tricky time. And Isaac knows that actually, that, you know, again, I wanna be honest with him and say, you know, you, you, he would, he was kind of, I think the hardest bit was, and again, this isn't necessarily universal, but he found life difficult. And I think a lot of it was because he couldn't communicate and he was distressed quite a lot, and that's what I found the hardest. So he was obviously seeking a routine. He found textures and foods difficult. He wanted to partake in repetitive behavior. So all the, um, traits of an early diagnosis, which I know isn't necessarily, um, they're, they're the diagnostic criteria for childhood autism, for want of a better phrase. And that's not necessarily universal. So I know people get diagnosed later in life who might not displaying or might not be presenting in that way, but he was presenting in a very typically autistic child's way. And it was leading to a lot of distress in Isaac and those early years when he was really crying and upset. And in hindsight it was because we might have been taking a different journey to nursery, or he might have, um, we might have been trying to give him a food that he just found overly stimulating or anything like that. We just didn't have the answers, and that was really, really hard. So that was
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Heartbreaking, really.
Matt Davis:
Yeah, it was heartbreaking actually, really, really was. I, I think I often say now, so I've had a daughter since who is neurotypical, and she obviously had tantrums and stuff when she was two and cried, but her tears never kind of cut through me in the way Isaacs did, because we could soothe her and understand her. Whereas with Isaac, we just didn't know what it was that was upsetting him because we didn't have any frame of reference, didn't know about autism, didn't know about routine, didn't know all these issues that we've come to learn with and kind of love about him really once you get the intervention you need. So it was a really, it was a very difficult time. Um, but once he got diagnosed, obviously the challenges came thick and far fast, but by having that reference point and knowing the intervention we could seek things changed significantly.
Matt Davis:
So yeah, that's how he, so he got diagnosed then. And then we just started on that journey of the, the baffling things, everything from what are we gonna do about education, what are we gonna do about rela relevant speech therapy, occupational therapy, it, you really do enter a world that is one you didn't expect to. And it's, I've gotta kind of put my wife down as the, the champion and the person who led the, the charge really in what we had to do. Um, because I, you know, she was, is a very resourceful person and was able to start navigating that world that all parents know about. You know, what do we do? How do we, what is it was called a statement at the time that the e h CCP is now called, that kind of golden ticket of this child has the rights to certain education. So, you know, we started with that. We'd seen a great pediatrician, we started having relevant speech therapy, teaching assistants, all that sort of stuff happened. Um,
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Did he go to a, did he go to a mainstream school or what, uh, you know, how did you decide what was the right educational kind of pathway for him?
Matt Davis:
Well, yeah, that was, so at the time he was at a mainstream nursery that was turning to reception and then primary school. And they were pretty good in that they had a few children on the spectrum. They were very open to being educated at the same time as us. We lived in Brent at the time, and actually Brent were, were, well, they were stretched like all boroughs and councils, but they had a really, they had some really good infrastructure. They had a team called the Brent. They, they were called Boat, which stands for Brent Outreach Autism Team. And we got, uh, we got involved with them and they spoke to the school and kind of, there was the, a linked up sort of process where I, the, the school provided a TA and boats kind of helped educate them and assist them, and they knew about Isaac and it all, it was quite laborious and slow, but it also, we felt there was a bit of momentum kind of with his education and how the teachers could work with him.
Matt Davis:
But after, so he transitioned into reception and then year one, but it, by the time he was kind of five six, we realized that he wasn't getting the support he needed. So how everyone was well-intentioned, but how well educated or trained the teachers were with autism was a little bit hit and miss. And you realized that he just wasn't getting the help he needed. And we found out about a school that was, um, an autistic school that was really right for him about the age of six, and realized it was exactly the sort of place he needed to be at. And Brent supported us with that, even though it was in Barnett, which is sort of next to Burra, they agreed that that school was right for him. And I, I'll never forget the day I went to visit it, so we'd been in this mainstream school where he was being supported, but he wasn't really learning.
Matt Davis:
He was distressed quite a lot, you know, everything from class size dinner hall, not having that, um, one-to-one learning that he really, really needed meant he wasn't really learning to write. His language was developing, but not in the way it it could have done. And it was just the fact that the teachers weren't trained enough in speech therapy. He didn't have a teacher with him helping with his grip, you know, for ro for using a pen. So he was just lagging behind and, and it was, it was a difficult period. So when I went to visit this school, it's called Homeward School, where he's still at, and I kind of, there were a few kind of teary moments and that was one of them cuz I wandered around the school and it was like, oh my God, every, every child here presents themselves quite like Isaac. And I can see these amazing teachers who are kind of, you know, right in the weeds of, of, of this child's education and helping them and the child are, children are happy and they're learning. And I was like, this is where Isaac absolutely has to be.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
I totally understand that.
Matt Davis:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Relate to it. I really can. And it's a, it it's a place that he, his potential could be realized and you could see that as a parent.
Matt Davis:
Absolutely. Yeah, that is absolutely. And their ethos is that it's, it's, they totally understand the child's needs and they, and they push them to the right degree and understand all their, you know, how they can help them. And he started there on his seventh birthday, the school starts at seven and he started there on his seventh birthday and he's still there now. And in fact, this morning his teacher called us about this week, he's had a brilliant week and she's so supportive and understanding it's, we, we, even my wife said to me this morning, we're lucky and kind of blessed with that school. Um, I c I can't talk of it higher enough, um, about him and as school, they access the curriculum, but they also do a lot of life skills and social skills and it's a very individualized, tailored package around each individual child. But you have to persuade the council to pay for you, for you and persuade them that this is exactly the school that your child needs to be at. And we've had a few moments where the council have queried it, um, but we're now in a place, touch wood that he'll be there till he is 19. Oh, that's brilliant. And it's absolutely been, yeah, it's absolutely been the kind of making of him and us without a doubt. So education is everything in my experience.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Finding the right education, you know, and it's, uh, you're right. Like you, you know, your wife and you saying you're so blessed or so lucky. I feel the same way with where my daughter's at as well. And then I feel, I feel for all those parents out there that are still struggling to find either to get payment for or find a spot in those schools, cause it does, it, it makes a huge difference, I think, to finding their potential that they're in the right environment and not struggling so hard against things, you know, that they shouldn't have to.
Matt Davis:
Absolutely. I mean, yeah, I could not agree more. It's, it, it's edu and it's, it's heartbreaking when you hear of these stories, um, of kids who aren't finding the right education. And we try and support as much as we can. And the, there are, there's some really good charities, um, that help advise in that sort of area. But once, once your child's in a place where the school understand and they've got the resources and the expertise and the teachers who have the backing of your, of your child and know how much they can push them or how, you know, what, what the child can achieve, then, then this kind of dis sky's the limit really. And it should be that way.
New Speaker:
<laugh>. Yeah, I mean, I can't believe we're here really that it's like one minute he's kind of, I mean, all parents say this of all children. It, it happens quickly and he, it does it, it's, he's 15 and he looks 15 and he's, his independence is interesting cause he wants to be independent, but he, um, he at the same time he wants support in, in certain things and his friendships are different. He's got good friends at school, he chats to on WhatsApp and, but he, he likes his own space as well. Hi. His big passion is trains has been since I can remember, and if anyone read my blog trains feature on and off pretty much all the time, but he's become a brilliant, um, it, it's his big thing. And what, what's been brilliant, you know, I know I've no doubt that trains started way back, you know, when he was four or whatever, because, and I think a lot of autistic parent parents of autistic children and autistic adults who have passions, the regularity have of, of a trade and map or timetables or just the stim, the kind of regular sounds of trains are feed into an autistic mindset quite often.
Matt Davis:
They don't always, but they do. Um, often with Isaac, they did, there was, you know, before even before or just when he was diagnosed, just being on a train often soothed him. And I've no doubt that's because of the regularity of it, of trains and the sounds and the, the kind of the consistency of a train. But it quite Rick quite soon became a real passion. And he loves, I mean, he could talk about trains for hours and he's a content creator who's got a thousand followers on his YouTube channel. He makes really fascinating film.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
I know I saw his YouTube channel, my daughter would love to have a YouTube channel and I've you know, she's too, too young. But how, you know, how did you guys decide to do that? And like, it's, uh, it's amazing, but I, you know, it's also, um, uh, for a parent, uh, scary, I would imagine a bit too <laugh>, I don't know, maybe not for you.
Matt Davis:
Yeah, a little bit. I think, yeah, if I kind of woke up one day going, right, Isaac's gonna do YouTube channel, I'd be full of all the kind of social media vagaries and fears. But he, he, you know, quite early on, you know, technology is an absolute liberator and I've often feel quite grateful that I'm living in an era where Isaac has these, you know, whether it's a YouTube or certain games or something where he can really articulate himself and use it as a social platform and make films. His editing and filming skills are, are, are excellent and there's all the worries, but we, we have total, and he, because he's kind of very honest, he tells us whenever anything suspect happens, and we have total transparency of what he sees, who he follows, um, and that sort of thing. So I feel quite confident that YouTube's a pretty safe space for him because whilst, whilst we have a view in it, and whilst he's very happy to share his information, it feels, um, it feels a good place to be. And just the things like iMovie and YouTube studio, which are the, the, the, uh, the platforms where he makes and edits his films, it's a great place for him to learn. And he learned so much through other YouTubers and he has social account so much of his socializing actually is online. And again, whilst you can have total view of that, it's pretty, it feels as safe as it can be. And he's met people through YouTube.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
It sounds enriching actually. It's, it's him self-educating himself and enriching his life through that platform in a, in a safe way.
Matt Davis:
Abs I mean, absolutely. The, last post I wrote was on social media. I mean, it totally is. He communicates via YouTube, he communicates via WhatsApp. And because as you'll know, you know, conversation so often is half finished sentences, people talking over each other, double meanings, nuance, um, inference, all these things that Isaac can find challenging. And I understand it, you know, I often half finish my sentences and say things that are too metaphorical or too idiom based. Whereas when you are communicating via WhatsApp or YouTube or there's a kind of tangible thing that you're talking about, whether it's trains or, or whatever it means, communication is, is smoother and it's kind of easier to communicate. And hence social media for Isaac has been brilliant for that reason. So he'll, he'll make a film on a station on Victoria Line or the history of Unu, um, least used YouTube stations.
Matt Davis:
He'll put it on YouTube, he'll get quite a lot of responses, and then he'll start conversations with people and we always can take a look at to make sure the person is, is kind of viable. But he's in, he's in transport group, there's a transport group called Transport Sparks, which is for fellow train spotters. And there's a huge community out there. And they, they chat and they talk about train lines, but then they also then talk about social things. And it isn't always about trains, but it's the, you know, communicating via these platforms allows for often a more honest and a more complete dialogue, if that makes sense. And it's been, it is been brilliant for him. And also gaming as well. He, there's a game called Train sim World that he goes on that is really great for learning. It's, he's learned how to, you know, it's essentially simulator games and he learns all the kind of intricacies of how you might drive a train and it's, it's been really good for his learning.
Matt Davis:
He wants to be a train driver or work for T F L in some way, and he's learned so much about how a train works and about how, um, even the social skills of working as a train operator. So there really are, you know, we're programmed a little bit to think gaming is, oh, you know, kids sitting in their room gaming. But it's the opposite really for me, for Isaac. He learns about things, he communicates with people and it's, you know, his school knows he does it. And there's loads of plus sides. And I actually, I'm a trustee of a charity called Autistic, which is a research charity forces, and they're doing all sorts of research programs into gaming and har it enhances sociability and learning, particularly amongst Neurodiverse children. And there's real evidence-based research out there that shows that social media, gaming technology when applied meaningfully and positively just is only a good thing. So I'm a great advocate and believer that technology, we're we're lucky in a technological age that autistic people can really benefit through, uh, technology in, in a totally positive way.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
I completely agree. All neurodiverse, I mean technolgy, it is the time to be alive when you have some of the challenges because it allows you to jump over them. At my daughter's school, they have Minecraft club at lunchtime where kids go and play on Minecraft together and it's, it's, there's a lot of autistic kids in her school as well, and it's, it's great, you know, um, it's um, I think the old adage that all, you know, oh, being on this screen is bad is, is it's just not true. There's so, I mean, there's so much that they gain from it. My daughter plays, you know, she talks out loud, she has imaginary play, she has friends that play Roblox with her, and it's yes. Complete use of her imagination, you know?
Matt Davis:
Absolutely. Yeah, I absolutely on completely the same page or screen, I should say <laugh>, but yeah,
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Completely.
Matt Davis:
And yeah, I, I totally agree. And yeah, my daughter neurotypical spends a lot of time on, on screens, so, but with Isaac, it's been an absolute game changer without a shadow of a doubt. And just his, you know, he, he, he's a content creator and his editing and storytelling, you know, he might not sit down and write a story in that traditional way of comprehension and that, that I grew up with, but he will sit down and create a really tight three minute film on something and it could be anything. It's not always on trains actually. It might be his take on a news event or, I mean, it could be anything. He's very, very funny as well. He's kind of learned so many jokes from, um, the u you know, and, and jokes that are acceptable as well. Often they're puns and wordplay, but he, he's got, yeah, so, so they're acceptable jokes and he knows when one isn't acceptable.
Matt Davis:
One is, and he's 15. And again, this is where sometimes I think when I was 15, I kept everything from my parents and wouldn't share with him anything, but he kind of shares everything because he's so honest. Uh, so that I'm grateful for, and it can lead to some quite amusing conversations because he's so honest about things. But he will, he's got this amazing memory so he can reel off about a hundred jokes that he's learned from the internet that are basically puns really more than anything. But he's very, he's very entertaining. And his YouTube in, on his YouTube channel, he can be, he can be very earnest if he's talking <inaudible>, he pronounces and he kind of, he projects information in a very earnest way or in a very funny way. So it's, it's, it's all good.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Well, you know, it's, you've mentioned earlier about how your wife kind of took the, took the reins and, and led with this. And I, you know, across the stories of other parents that I've talked to who are faced with this, oftentimes dads don't take a role at all or, um, you know, that they're scared of, of taking a role or they get stuck by the diagnosis. Is there any advice that you would give to dads in particular, but parents, um, you know, when, when they're faced with a diagnosis and when you kind of get that it's not the, the future you plan for your son, like I've heard, you know, well, I really want, I heard one mom say, my my ex-husband really wants him to go to a rugby game and he can't go to a rugby game. And she's like, I wish that wasn't the focus, you know? So is there any advice you would give to dads out there about how you came to terms with it?
Matt Davis:
Yeah, no, it's a great question because people do ask and everyone's different and we all, we all come to parenthood with expectations and preconceptions and all that sort of thing. Um, first of all, I'm, we are just very fortunate that me and my wife are on the page. I've always been on the same page, and I think there's a fortuitousness a fortuitous, is that the right word? Uh, we're, we we're just lucky that from the minute everything started kind of developing with Isaac, his happiness and contentment was the most important thing. It's really difficult to give my advice is that it's like, try, how do I, how do I say this without, it's very easy to get upset and, uh, think of a diagnosis as a label. And, uh, and, and I've, I've witnessed it and I could see it within myself, you think, I don't want it to be restrictive.
Matt Davis:
I want him to have a life where, yeah, you know, I'm a big football fan. So I think I spent time thinking, oh great, I'll take Isaac to watch Crystal Palace with me and he'll cheer them on and all that sort of stuff. But there was no, for his, you know, there was no way he was gonna go to football match for all the reasons that it's too noisy. Football's an odd game to follow, and I had to kind of pack away that little dream and, and put it away. But I quite rapidly was able to do that because I just, I think you've gotta try and see the label as something liberating, not constricting is what I'd say. Notice that there is lots of support out there and they can achieve anything in life when they find their passion or when they get the right support, is what my advice would be.
Matt Davis:
And that's difficult to say because if you have got those preconceptions or those ambitions for your child, then they're pretty tenacious and difficult to undo. But, you know, 10 years down the line, first of all, my daughter got quite into football and I took her to games and that kind of smashes the stereotype, but, but I kind of loved that. Secondly, I did bond with him over trains and taking on train journeys right from the off and seeing him learn about the tube map and then become a kind of content creator has given me the same sense of pride and satisfaction as it would standing on the touchline seeing him play football. It just takes a little bit of a mental shift really to kind of accept that, that that happens. And now, age 15, Isaac, he's not, he doesn't want to come to watch games, but he, because there's a boy in his class who's really into football, Isaac started to build up this knowledge of, of football and, and results and who's playing when and where.
Matt Davis:
And, uh, totally unexpectedly he's showing an interest in football when I really don't need it or expect it. So it can come further down the line. I think you've gotta, my biggest advice is just to try and let things go a little of what you might expect and never know what's around the corner. There's a great paradox, I've said this before with autism, I think with, when you are a parent of, you need to plan every day because routine and rigidity are fairly common traits amongst, uh, young autistic people. But the paradox is, yeah, I've gotta plan this next week, but who knows what will be, where we'll be in six months time. And I've kind of always tried to live with that. You have to think about, think about the next week, but thinking beyond then is something to try and not get too obsessed with.
Matt Davis:
So I didn't know that Isaac would be doing all this stuff when he is 15. I'm still not sure what GCSEs he'll take, if any, whether he'll do A levels or T levels or whether he'll do apprenticeships. All I know is w he'll keep on, um, working to his potential and achieving his potential, and who knows how that will play out. So my advice is just to try and take that view of things and that the world is getting better. Um, I think some people would disagree and a lot of adult autistic people would definitely disagree and workplaces need a lot of education, but as we're in a world where we don't, you know, I, I as a, as a father of a nine year old girl, I think the statistic is by the time she's 18 or 19 or 22 out of the three jobs she'll do, we don't even know what those jobs will be.
Matt Davis:
So the world is unknown and I think you kind of, I try and apply that to both my children and just to sort of accept the difference comes in many forms and just try and be there and lean into whatever change it happens to be. So, and their communities out there who will understand. I think that's, that's a big thing I haven't touched on yet is, you know, we are, part of my wife's got lots of siblings and lots of kids, and at the beginning it was very difficult because all these, all Isaac's cousins were following a fairly typical path and socializing and developing in a typical way. And I find that quite hard and those early days where people are really sympathetic and kind of say, oh, all kids have tantrums and lots of kids learn in different, at different rates. But as we were getting the diagnosis and I was seeing that Isaac might have to go to a specialist school and all that sort of stuff, I found difficult because I found it difficult that other people want a more typical path.
Matt Davis:
And I think at that point you have to try and accept that he might not go down that path and that's fine, you know, because there's, that's just the way of the world and that's my kind of Eli. I don't, I never wanna be too, um, full of advice because everyone's so different. But what I do say is things can be okay because there's the support out there and every child's different and there's lots of support and communities that can really help. What I would, what I would say is to people who dunno anything about autism, talk to them about it, tell them about it and tell them why your child will be brilliant and different. That's the kind of advice I've got. But it is, it can be odd and you're right, it probably presents itself as harder with dads sometimes. And, but I often get calls from people who, I actually got one today from a friend who's a friend of a friend who's kid is seven, I think, and he's been diagnosed and he's finding things difficult and sometimes just a phone call helps people and it helped me when I was at that age.
Matt Davis:
Yeah. So I think it's, it's kind of that try not to be too drawn into expectations. Know that there's a lot of areas that your son or daughter will thrive in. Uh, they just might not be ones you'd expected them to thrive in.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
And that's why, you know, having your story here today and having people listen to it, I think is gonna be very powerful for people and not just for their, their children, but also I think it's very good advice for life, you know, to just, uh, worry about now and enjoy now and not look, you know, too much into planning what the future is and it will surprise you.
Matt Davis:
Yeah, I think that's, that's exactly right. And it's, it's actually, you know, to kind of con to really affirm that point, Isaac's sister is nine, so there, uh, there's kind of five and a half, six years between them and whilst she is neurotypical, our challenges with Isaac and the way we've gone about his education has absolutely had an impact on the way we've parent her and being a bit more open to staff and being a bit more holistic in her education. That's the positive sign of having an autistic child on, on a neurotypical child. You realize that neurotypical children have sim similar challenges that you might not be able to access the support that we got with Isaac, or she might not need it in similar ways, but you definitely take that view that education is not one size fits all, and following their lead to a certain extent is something that's worth doing. And finding their own passions and hobbies and where they thrive is as important with a neurotypical child as a neurodiverse child is a learning as well. So it, it kind of works that way as well.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
It's something that, you know, I'm, uh, my eyes are being open to more and more is that, you know, the education system doesn't necessarily allow our children to explore their interests and to be free in that way. And with the neurodiverse children, they kind of, they're not taking it, you know what I mean? They're gonna do it their way. So, uh, the education system has had to change, but I think it probably needs to change for everybody because the most important thing is that love of learning, that exploration, that finding of your passions.
Matt Davis:
Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent agree. And, you know, I mean, it, it's so true. I don't, I think our education system without getting political is pretty broken broadly as a macro thing. That being said, like with Isaac's school and with the schools looking at my daughter, but there are brilliant systems in pockets in place. Pockets, exactly. And the world's changing so much, you know, leaving school at H 18 with qualifications that are pretty inflexible and don't really adapt to the real world makes you realize that, you know, what you learn at school is a tiny percentage of what you then go and learn throughout life. You know, I'm in, in my profession. Um, things have changed beyond any, ima my wildest imagination in the 20 or 30 years I've been in it. And the, the catchphrases of lifelong learning and all that sort of stuff means education, chi chi, uh, child's education.
Matt Davis:
Sure, there are some real fundamentals that we have to get in place, but we need as human beings, um, we need to be fit to learn throughout life, not just sit in the classroom with a adult talking to us and kind of absorbing information and then spitting it all out twice a year. You know, <laugh>, it's kind of like so insane, our education system that actually I feel quite liberated that Isaac doesn't need to tick those boxes at the moment. He can, he doesn't need to kind of learn, learn, you know, study for loads of exams and then pass them and then go on some conventional course in university. There's lots of different other ways that he can find a role for him in the world. And I just see it in my, I work in the creative industries and no one works in the way they were taught at school at all.
Matt Davis:
And then often the skills people have picked up have been in the workplace, or they've been after school, or they've done them in their own time. It's learning is so multifaceted and so varied, and it's only changing that school is just our first step on it. And I think actually things like social skills and are as important, if not more important than any sort of vem, you know, any inflexible or, you know, kind of academic learning that is set in its ways. I think learning is such a broad, amorphous kind of discipline. It happened throughout life. So again, I'd say that to new parent for example as well, who might be that, that default of, oh God, I've gotta get them into a school and then they've gotta pass these exams. I just, that is, I don't believe that's the case. I don't believe that's the case as a parent, as a parent of an autistic child, as and an employer as well. Those things just, there's so much more to life and to learning. So yeah, I think luckily the world is waking up to that. I think our education system is waking up to that, and that is, is only a positive thing really.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
I completely agree with you, and I think our Neurodiverse children are leading the charge on it. It's, you know, it's gonna change and they're showing us how it is changing and the world is changing, which is a thank goodness for that. You know, it's been a pleasure, Matt, having you on the show today. It has been, um, enlightening and, uh, you've put a smile on my face as I'm sure you have to many of the listeners. So thank you very much for sharing your story. And I will have links to your blog on, um, my site and also to Isaac's YouTube channel so our, uh, listeners can check it out for themselves. So thank you.
Matt Davis:
Thank you. It's been a real pleasure. I think you're doing a brilliant thing with this podcast and, uh, yeah, it's been great to talk about Isaac's journey and share our opinions as well.
Dr. Olivia Kessel:
Thank you so much for listening and being part of the Send Parenting Tribe. Next week is Neurodiversity week and there are lots of amazing activities taking place online and in person. I will be joining the Icom conference, itt, A K O M, and we'll share any wisdom that I gain. Please visit our website at www.sendparenting.com and sign up for our newsletter. And I'd really appreciate if you wouldn't mind leaving any comments on episodes that you've enjoyed or maybe not enjoyed. Your comments and feedbacks is greatly appreciated. Wishing you and your family a happy week ahead.
my heart rate was up 15 beats per minute increased from what it normally is. I was so stressed during that period of time, and I have the benefit of being a doctor. I had the benefit of being able to borrow money from my father and I still really struggled to get her what she needed.
Dr Olivia Kessel:
And there's nothing worse as a parent as not knowing if you can give your child what they need so that they can get the right education, the right support to reach their potential. And that's really was the inspiration for me starting this podcast because I would have loved to been able to hear other people's stories and to have had information about the legal aspects and to learn from other educators in terms of what was possible. I didn't even know what a specialist school was. And information is power and you need power to be a warrior for your child. So I hope that the effort for these recordings that I have done for the podcast are helpful to other parents and they are still helpful to me. I really gain a lot from everyone I talk to and I become more and more inspired to do more and to follow others who are leading the way in terms of changing the way we think about education and changing the way that we look at our children and how we can inspire them to learn and how we can help them to reach their potential.
Dr Olivia Kessel:
So I get as much from the podcast as I hopefully am giving, and I appreciate you listening to me, for this 10th episode and hearing a little bit about my background story. Thank you so much for listening to the 10th episode of the SEND Parenting Podcast. If you are new to the show, please follow us to tune in weekly. With new episodes being released every Thursday, it would be great to hear from you and get your comments and feedback. Please reach out either on social media, at Facebook or Instagram at Send Parenting or through our website at www.sendparenting.com. Wishing you an amazing week ahead.