EP 95: Understand Your Genetics & Improve Your Nutrition with Dr. Jill Crowfoot of Renude Health

Please excuse any errors in this auto-generated transcript

Dr Olivia KesselHost

00:06

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. I would love to invite you to join our private Send Parenting community on WhatsApp. It launched last week and it's been truly inspiring. I have loved meeting and connecting with those of you who have joined. I love hearing your stories about your families and discovering how we can all support, learn and grow together. This is a space really where we can share our experiences, really uplift each other when we're down and also really help each other out in navigating this world of neurodiverse parenting. The link to join is in the podcast show notes if you haven't already, or feel free to private message me on 07-856-915-105. And I can personally send you out an invite to join our growing community. Let's continue this journey together, one step at a time. I know I felt very alone many times on this journey and this is a community where we no longer have to feel alone.

01:48

In this episode today, we are going to be joined by Dr Jill Crawford, who graduated from the University of Birmingham Medical School and for the last 20 years has combined working as a GP alongside founding Renewed Health. Her vision is to offer personalized nutrition and lifestyle solutions based on a person's individual DNA, through actionable genetic testing, clinical evaluation and lifestyle and nutritional changes. Her aim is to treat a range of health conditions by encouraging proactive wellness and by enacting nutritional and lifestyle solutions which can actually restore your unique DNA expression from damage that has been caused by environmental factors. Today we are going to get into it. We are going to discuss this topic and explore in greater detail how our DNA and how that expression of that DNA can be assessed through genetic testing and can really help us to understand our health. And, in particular, we'll look at how it can actually assess our children, our neurodiverse, children's nervous systems. We'll also explore the interlink between hormones, both in puberty and menopause, and how our genetic analysis, alongside a good clinical history, can really help us to map a healthier way forward. This is cutting edge science and it's really the way I see medicine going, and it's a super focused way to actually understand our blueprint, our DNA, and then get the right solutions, not only for ourselves, but for our children as well.

03:20

I think you'll find this mind blowing. I certainly did. Please join me to listen to Dr Crawford. So welcome, dr Crawford, to the SEND Parenting Podcast. It is such a pleasure to have you with us today and I am super excited to talk about how understanding our DNA and our genetic expression really can help us to personalize not only our nutritional choices but our lifestyle choices, and actually has an impact on our overall health and, if we have illness, how we deal with that, which is super fascinating and it's so. It's new and, in particular, you know, from my audience's perspective of mind, you know looking after neurodiverse children and maybe being neurodiverse ourselves. How can this help us to make the right nutrition choices for our children so that they can flourish within their own genetic makeup? So, wow, I mean so much to discuss today, but first of all, tell us a little bit about how you, as a GP, got well yes, yeah, I mean, I think it's, um, it is as you say.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

04:18

It's absolutely fascinating and I think, um, once your eyes have been open to the possibility of knowing more about personal nutrition and how you can get your own biochemistry to work efficiently, it's almost like, well, why isn't everybody doing it? Isn't that how wellness should be, rather than treating illness? So, yeah, you're absolutely right. As a GP of 27 years, the way I sort of expand, I'm a bit of a problem solver. I think really that's me. Yeah, yeah.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

04:48

I think all GPs have to be problem solvers. I'm not happy to just think, oh well, that's fine.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

04:51

But me I've got to get to the nitty gritty. I won't let it go until I sort of find out what's really going on. And I think in medicine that's quite tricky, isn't it? Because we spend a lot of our time, sort of with patients who have got symptoms and yet all their tests are normal. You know everything is coming back normal and that's meant to be hugely reassuring, and actually it's. It's reassuring, but if you still feel unwell and you've still got symptoms, then it's it's totally demoralizing, isn't it?

Dr Olivia KesselHost

05:17

because you get into this absolutely and then you get into this thing, where does everybody think it's in my head?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

05:22

I really am tired. I really, you know, have got muscle aches and pains. I really do feel anxious and nothing is fixing it. So those are all the things for me that were sort of like, well, what is going on? What is the root cause of the problem? Here? And obviously in orthodox medicine, we're just not taught nutrition. We do a bit of biochemistry, but you know nutrition and lifestyle, you know the the obvious that we all know walk more, drink water, eat healthily, don't eat rubbish, avoid yeah, I remember working on the cardiac ward in in dublin and they would serve them fried eggs, sausage and chips, it's just madness isn't, it is

06:00

you know, and that is the thing you know. We do know we are what we eat, but even beyond that, we are what we absorb, and you know. So when we look at things like the gut, we know that if somebody's gut isn't optimal, even if they're eating the best foods, they're not going to absorb it. And therefore, you know, and we do run on what we eat, don't we? Nutritional, mineral, wise, and so that's obviously a key part, but it just doesn't come into our education as doctors in this country, does it no?

Dr Olivia KesselHost

06:26

Is it still not that way? I was hoping that maybe it would evolve.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

06:28

From the younger colleagues I speak to, I still sort of, if I'm working with GP registrars who are still training the minute, you sort of bring nutrition in or the importance of vitamin D, or they're sort of it's like, oh really, and it's something that we still brush over, and so for me, I think that's the thing is. What I'm striving to do is try and bring together the medical world and the nutritional world, because actually, as doctors not all of us, but there are some doctors that are still quite arrogant about the benefits of nutrition and the skills of nutritionists and actually really good nutritionists, I mean, the information that they know at a cellular level is just mind blowing. And I often think that, pulling the two of us together, let's not have every doctor retraining in medicine, in nutrition, but actually let's introduce it into the curriculum, but let's use the doctors who are interested in more functional medicine to actually be pulling together with the nutritionist so we can give a really sort of whole picture of how people can improve their wellness. So so that was sort of my sort of uh, what can we do about this? And I think the way this came about was um, I've always had a very special interest in women's health.

07:37

I, I had a, I was a partner in a gp practice for 25 years and it was a beautiful little corner shop general practice, just two of us. Sadly, I had to shut that when my partner became ill and retired because I became single-handed. But what I was able to see throughout that transition was see my ladies who were pregnant, see the ladies who had the postnatal depression, got the PMS, and I always knew that those ladies were going to suffer more in the perimenopause and the menopause and it was that sort of transition and it always made me think, well, why is that happening? There's got to be some sort of hormonal imbalance. But you know, quite often in medicine we just dampen hormones, don't we? Let's sort of let's give you a tablet to dampen it, not try and the root cause of it. And then what happened?

08:22

About five years ago I helped open a founder of a menopause clinic and so I was actually seeing far more menopausal women than I'd seen in my cohort in my practice and I began to think, you know this, just, you know, hormones aren't everything. You know sort of HRT can be given to women, but actually it's not the silver bullet for lots of women and actually what we've got to be looking at is all hormones, how all hormones interact, and what was it that was happening at that stage in the perimenopause of a woman's life that was destabilizing everything. So that's when I sort of looked I've got to look beyond this Is it nutrition-based, what else could it be? And my sort of endeavors to problem solve brought me to nutrigenomics, and nutrigenomics, yeah, all right that was actually my next question and nutrigenomics essentially is a study that is very new lots of good research, but very new where we actually look at people's DNA.

09:22

So we can take a sample of your DNA via a very simple, non-invasive cheek swab, the inside of the mouth, and we can look at your genetic blueprint. And when we talk about DNA, I think people you know it's a difficult concept to think about, isn't it? But essentially I always describe it to people. As you know, our DNA is what makes us us, it's our individual self, isn't it so? And our DNA will sort of determine our eye color, it will determine our height, but it will also determine other factors that can be affected by the environment. So it will determine are we more prone, eating the same diet, potentially to get cardiovascular disease or put weight on or have different illnesses? And that's always fascinating, isn't it? Why can somebody be a lifelong smoker and not get lung cancer? And other people can get that. So it's multifactorial and that takes us back, doesn't it, to that whole nature and nurture.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

10:19

Well, it's interesting. I'm just reading a book now called Blueprint, and he puts epigenetics to the side, which is very convenient of him to do, but he talks about how a lot of our psychology and our mental health is also determined, which in my training it was not believed that way to be. But more and more evidence is coming out. And then you also put the nurture on top of it, which then predicates which genes are expressed within that, exactly, absolutely.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

10:43

And that's the thing, isn't it?

10:44

It's sort of it's the nurture is I always think of as the environment.

10:49

So what is the environment that we are in whether that be the environment of nutrition, stress, toxins that is affecting the nature element of our DNA, and what we know is is that there are certain elements of our DNA that are more vulnerable to change. So we're all born with our DNA, but within that DNA there are elements of it that can be affected by the environment, and that is what we call epigenetic change. So the epigenetic change means that those genes can be affected so that it can cause symptoms in a detrimental way. So, for instance, we might not be able to. We might need high vitamin D, we might need more input of nutrients, because what is happening is that our DNA is utilizing more of those nutrients and therefore the genetic pool is becoming depleted. So the beauty of nutrigenomics is what you can do is you can offer personalized nutrition and lifestyle advice and you can sort of drain back and put all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle to see why events and why symptoms might be occurring. So it's absolutely fascinating.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

12:03

It takes the guesswork out of it occurring. So it's absolutely fascinating. It takes the guesswork out of it and it also to your point earlier. Then it gets really under the hood of your own cause and effect situation, instead of this broad stroke of you should do this or you should do that, and then you don't see the results or you don't test positive for things that you know could explain it. It really, yeah, it's personalized medicine absolutely.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

12:25

And I think the thing that people don't understand is is I often use this analogy we've got one nutrient pool and we've got lots of body systems that use those nutrients. So if we've got a nervous system that is more heightened and it's going to use more of our b6 and our zinc and our magnesium, then it may well be that it presents symptomatically in a different way because it might be affecting our mitochondria and we might have a low energy state and be tired all the time. But that isn't going to show on the blood tests that we do at the GP surgery because it's having a multiple effect on all our body systems. And that's where the sort of the perimenopause element came in for me, because it was well.

13:08

I always think of the perimenopause as a bit like puberty, isn't it?

13:12

If I'm taking a good menopause history from a lady, I always go back and say what happened at puberty, what were those first part of senior school years like? Because actually the fluctuation in your hormone levels that are occurring now are exactly the same as what was happening at puberty. But the difficulty is is you're now at a stage where you've got a lot more stress, you've probably got a family, you're working hard. So anything that was in the system that had a slight genetic tendency to be wobbled is now being massively heightened. So those women who and this is where we go into why do more women in the perimenopause now present or is it presentation or is it awareness of more ADHD type symptoms in the perimenopause is compared to their children? Is it because that the hormones are being destabilized, destabilizing everything, and we've got had more exposure to things to mean that lots of our genetic tendencies have now been switched on and perhaps working less favorably compared to how they were when we were sort of, you know, 12, 13, 14.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

14:17

But it's interesting also that you see an increase in girls diagnosis around the age of 11 as well. And, you know, is that because we're not recognizing the signs, probably partially due to that, but also is it the peri premenstruation? I don't even know what you call that, but I mean, is it? Is that why? Because, again, the hormones are, you know, we're having great fluctuations in estrogen, so they're not being able and I would say I would I have seen this with my daughter. Luckily, we're both going through it now together, yeah, but that's exactly it and I think that's why we?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

14:48

you know, I'm a great believer that if we give women the knowledge, we can work it out, can't we? If we know what is happening, we can generally work it out. And I think that's what's so important for me. And I use the analogy that you know all hormones, the brain is a fantastic thing. Use the analogy that you know all hormones, the brain is a fantastic thing, you know, it doesn't matter how your brain is wired, whether you're deemed to be neurodiverse, you know. You know whatever is there able to compensate in most people, as long as the variance and the variables are being as stable as possible, isn't it? And and I I think you know, when we look at anything, we need to look at all hormones. So the link between our sex hormones is directly related to our nervous system hormones. We know that to make dopamine and serotonin, we need estrogen. We know that actually, all those hormones are processed and excreted in the same way.

15:40

So if what happens is and I use my analogy to people, I often like to think of it, as I'm a very visual person, I like to think of a bathtub. So say, we've got a bathtub and what happens is, you know, as a child, our nervous system hormones are there, and some people will be less able to control their nervous system hormones and they might be a clingy child or a separation anxiety or more of a worrier. And what's happening there, I often think, is you've already known that you've got a slightly genetically programmed wobbly nervous system. What happens is those hormones then all have to be excreted, so they all go into a bathtub, and that bathtub has got to be able to raise the plug hole and let the drains flow away to get that free flow. So we haven't got a concoction going on that is then causing us trouble. What happens at puberty is that same bathtub then acquires our sex hormones. So our estrogen and our progesterone are metabolized by the genes and the enzymes in exactly the same way as our nervous system hormones. So immediately, if we already had a slightly wobbly nervous system and the bathtub and the drain pipe couldn't quite cope with it anyway, it's now got all the hormones in it, so we get even more of a concoction, and then that happens on a monthly basis.

16:55

So everything is getting wobbled, and you only then need, on top of that, for somebody to. I mean, we can talk about the neurotransmitters, but you only need somebody to say, have a higher need of GABA, which is our sort of our calming hormone. Isn't it Our off switch to be having to produce a lot more GABA to keep that bathtub from really bubbling and keeping them calm and it's going to use up the nutrients it needs to make GABA, so it's going to have a heightened need for using zinc and B6 and magnesium to produce the GABA that that person needs, but then those nutrient pools are then going to be depleted for other that we already need. If you are, then, somebody who has a genetic predisposition that you already need 14% higher amounts of vitamin B6, or you've got a higher preponderance of need for zinc, because that's your genetic blueprint, you're already on the back foot. So just by knowing those absolutely so it exasperates it even more.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

18:05

It becomes it your bathroom is going to overflow concoction gets worse.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

18:09

And then, on top of that, you only need to add other nutrient depletions in. But to then know which your nutrients are that are making you more vulnerable, um, it gives you that personalized nutrition. You put those nutrients in, you incorporate those foodstuffs that are high in, for instance, zinc and b6, and immediately you've your medicine, which is your food to keep your biological processes, which are very unique to you, to be working optimally.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

18:36

And you know. Just to summarize this so basically, by doing the genetic analysis of your genes and understanding where you're at, then you can understand what nutritional support will work for you or not work for you. And then interrelate on that as well is what your needs might be from a nervous system perspective or a hormonal perspective.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

18:56

Yeah, because everybody sort of you know lots of people who sort of listening into the genetic world now will have heard oh, you know things like the importance of the MTHFR gene, comt gene. So people will have heard of those sort of if anybody sort of dip their toe into the sort of genomic world, they are the things they'll hear. And the difficulty with that is people will hear oh, if I've got a slow COMT, that's good or that's bad. Well, it might not be. It depends whether your COMT gene you want to be fast or slow, depends whether your comped gene you want to be fast or slow Because actually comped something like the plug hole which is that enzyme and that gene is sorting.

19:34

If it's slow and you're somebody who is really struggling to make your dopamine, struggling to make your serotonin, well we want the plug hole to be blocked because we want to keep it in that bathtub. So we want your, which would be the case for most neurodiverse conditions where you know we need more dopamine, we need more serotonin. But that same enzyme metabolizes estrogen. So if we were in a state of we've got a high estrogen state, that might be aggravating it. So it's all about context. So it's then looking at, thinking okay, well, that's my gene state, this is the rest of my biochemistry. What is important for me? Which are the enzymes, which are the sort of variants that I've got that I need to support to basically allow everything to be running?

Dr Olivia KesselHost

20:15

freely. And I mean, that's where you need a professional like you to kind of be the detective and the puzzle solver, to put all of those pieces together, because the everyday person, including myself, you know it would, you know it would be challenging, because you often hear, you know, oh, you know, give your children omegas, give your children magnesium, give your children this, that and the other. And I mean, you know, to a degree you can do trial and error, which can be effective, but this is actually getting down to the nitty gritty of how your yourself or your child, what they need and I think that's the point, isn't it?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

20:48

Nutrient supplements. They cost money and you know, as parents, if we've got children with neurodiversity, if we've got ourselves, anybody, anybody that is just not feeling themselves, you can spend a fortune, you know, on this diet, this next supplement, and actually what happens is you just don't know, do you? You just don't know. You keep taking it. And you know the women I see is you know? Have you got any supplements? Cupboard's full, cupboard's full? Do you take them? No?

Dr Olivia KesselHost

21:17

And we're all the same. I used to joke with my father he has the most expensive urine of anyone I know.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

21:22

And I think that's why we jest, and because the other thing is is everybody thinks no, but I eat really well, I eat from scratch, so I should be getting everything that I need in my diet. And how wonderful would that be. But we know that if you pick an orange from a tree in Seville and ate it straight away, it'd be full of vitamin C. No-transcript vitamin D, sort of perimenopausal women, don't they? Because oh, I need it for my bones. It's at this time, but it's so far beyond that, isn't it?

22:06

You know vitamin D is an immune modulator, so you know it will give our bodies an appropriate response to infection that we come across. It's absolutely crucial to make serotonin and dopamine and most of our neurotransmitters. We get all the vitamin D we all needed from sunlight in the UK and from our diet, but we know we can't. And on top of that, you know, we know that if we do your genetic profile, some people will have genetic variants on their vitamin D receptors and their transport genes which mean that they need a much higher level of vitamin D to achieve the same serum level as somebody else. So again, we see it all the time.

22:54

It's sort of in general practice on the NHS. If we do a vitamin D level, we might say, oh, your level of 50, oh, that's normal. But actually when we look at your genetics, it might mean that you need a level of near 100 or 150 to get the same therapeutic effect as the other person who hasn't got genetic SNPs or tendencies, variants on their gene. And 50, a level of 50 is absolutely fine. So again, it's looking at that, isn't it? What do we need?

23:18

And most of the people I'm sure listening to your podcast and you and all the beautiful information that we've had so far in the episodes is when you look at the sort of the nutritional elements that people can do to support any choices of medication, there's sort of the general things come up, aren't they? The importance of omega fatty, essential fatty acids, omega-3, the importance of zinc, magnesium, b6. And we know that they really are important. But it's, how much do you need? Is that? Which one of those nutrients might your child or you not be getting efficiently or need more of? That actually could just make a massive difference to their anxiety level.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

23:59

And oftentimes with neurodiverse kids. Eating is a challenge, and getting them to eat the foods that you know that are rich in those nutrients is not always easy. You easy, or it's impossible actually, but that's the vicious cycle, isn't it?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

24:11

Because actually we know, don't we? And I think we know that ADHD is genetic. The papers say different things, don't they? It's a neurological wiring, isn't it, that we can't change. So nutrition won't change that. But the consequences of how your dopamine is affected, how your neuroadrenaline levels are affected, the other impacts on how they're produced and what else can be stimulating anxiety, is inflammation, isn't it? If we can keep our cellular inflammation down and have the right nutrients, like vitamin D, like our essential fatty acids, to allow us to keep inflammation down, then we're going to prevent the added symptoms that our neurodiverse fellows are experiencing. And that's the thing that we want to do, isn't it? We want to be able to support, to make life as easy as we can, because it's difficult and it's especially difficult.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

25:07

Yeah, no, I mean, my daughter has ADHD and for me we use medication and nutrition and I consider to make life as easy as we can, because it's difficult and it's especially difficult, yeah, and I mean my daughter has ADHD and for me we use medication and nutrition and I consider those two really important pillars for her, because the medication helps to increase her dopamine it's been life changing but also the nutrition brings in all the building blocks she needs to make that dopamine and so if she doesn't have those right building blocks, even with the medication, her body is going to struggle. So to me you can't have one without the other and I think that's the important thing, isn't it?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

25:33

And it's knowing which are the right ones for you. And I think it's interesting, isn't it as well? We do lots of different reports, but the nervous system report is obviously fascinating for this. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because, again, just on that basis, we know, don't we? That ADHD is always deemed really to be due to low dopamine. What we've got to do is we've got to raise the dopamine. But actually, as we know, lots of people try different medications and they don't work or they get side effects from them. And it's really interesting I always look at that thing that some people's issue is that they've actually got too high dopamine, Because low dopamine and high dopamine can produce exactly the same symptoms, can't they?

26:13

They can produce insomnia, they can produce anxiety, and so can low noradrenaline. So when we're able to look at your genes and how you process your serotonin and your dopamine, and what nutrients you might not have there to produce that, it really opens up the eyes. I've had people on specific ADHD medication that has been looking at reuptake and maintaining the dopamine and actually, you know, it's worked a bit, but actually it hasn't worked completely. And when we've looked at their DNA. It's yes, but actually your problem is further down. It's all noradrenaline. So you've got plenty of dopamine, but actually it's your noradrenaline. So then being able to change their medication to say more of a noradrenaline uptake, that's a life-changing bit. So it's yeah.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

27:03

It's fascinating, isn't it? I mean, it gives you an insight. You know that's incredible. It would be like if you went to a restaurant and you tasted an amazing dish and you try and guess what is in it, versus being printed out the recipe, you know it's giving you the recipe of what your body needs, and I guess that was your impetus for starting Renewed Health and helping. I know that you mainly were focusing on menopausal women, but it also sounds like ADHD and other neurodiversities as well. To help put those two together.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

27:34

The impetus for me was finding the reason why perimenopausal women responded differently, and that was the impetus to find nutrigenomics, and I did. But actually what you find is is it's everything, isn't it? It's every symptom. So anybody with fibromyalgia you know, anxiety, any sort of symptom that everybody says, oh no, that everything's normal, is you can get to the root cause of it. So, and I think for me sort of you know, women's health will always be my passion. It has been for years, and I think you give women this information and that is what's so rewarding to me. I mean, it has been for years and I think we're, you know we're, we're, you give women this information and that is what's so rewarding to me. I mean it's a complete privilege being a doctor, isn't it? You know?

28:15

you know, we are very lucky to be able to do what we do and, I think, to be able to help people but but to be able to sort of go beyond that of, oh, this is your HRT, oh, and we all know that you know, got to look at cortisol. But to be able to say the reason why your perimenopause is worse is because of these factors, and then to see women be able to change their lifestyle because they can see on paper how they're wired, look at the nutrition specifically that they've got to put in and, all of a sudden, for everything to settle. Quite often they're then able to have the right dose of hormone replacement, if that's what they choose to have, without, you know, having any other symptoms and, more importantly, knowing that they're processing those hormones properly, Because we all want to make sure that we get all our hormones out of that bathtub as best we can. But there's so many systems and I think for me the neurodiversity is so important because I just see well the number of poor people waiting to be diagnosed. So if you're waiting to be diagnosed and a diagnosis is important in lots of ways, isn't it? But actually, while those people and the parents at home are frustrated because it has a huge impact on families, doesn't it? And I think, as a mom, all you want to do is help that child in front of you, don't you? You want to make that journey through life.

29:33

I think being a parent for me is the hardest thing I've ever done, because actually you want to do it well, don't you? And um and, and you know, I've got identical twins. I've got three lovely children, but identical twin boys who are very dyslexic, and and and again. That's that thing, isn't it? You know that definitely has a genetic component to it, but it actually has more of an environment factor. So there's more that you can do to stabilize that and help support that than is deemed to be able to do with neurodiversity.

30:04

But it's all a spectrum, isn't it? It's all a spectrum. And if we can sort of aid our children in the best way we can, nutritionally, while we're waiting for diagnoses, then actually you feel as a parent you're doing something. You see visible differences, you see that child who is agitated, hyperactive, who immediately calms, and to just be able to sort of get their GABA levels right to allow them to feel calm, which a lot of children may have never done, it's just it's, you know, it's just so rewarding and and it's and you know that it's personalized to your child.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

30:38

So, because there's so many, you know there's so many fads, there's so many, oh, you've got to take this, he's got to take that. No one tells you how much to take of anything. And I remember when my daughter was little and my pediatrician actually said to me she was Olivia, there aren't enough studies about you know, we, we add, we add stuff into all the baby foods, all these snacks, you know, and then you're trying to give supplements on top. She's like we don't know enough about it. And this is, you know, 13 years ago. So, understanding what your personalized child's DNA map is and what they specifically need. You told the story like, because I, you know, I'm a huge proponent of organic food and I, you know, I don't know what my genes say, but my mind says it's got to be better without pesticides, and actually Tesco does a great job of providing cheap organic food that I can buy. But you had a story with your son which I was like wow, you, you know, when is it? When is it really?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

31:25

important? Yeah, exactly, I mean. A lot of the people I see at the moment are people who you know, with a good clinical history and their DNA. What you're trying to do is you're winding it back, you're putting the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together to say this is why this will have happened. So now we can sort of and that is just, you know, revolutionary, isn't it For people to be able to have the answers the other way?

31:45

And what I would really like is you know, what we want as medics is we want to be promoting well-being, don't we? So, you know, for my children, who I've obviously done their DNA on and they're not, they haven't got any issues, mainly at the moment. But actually, and the important thing of the test is, it shows us what our vulnerabilities are. Now, that might mean that those vulnerabilities haven't been switched on yet by our epigenetic change, so they're not presenting the symptoms, they're not draining our nutrient pool, but they can see what their potential is. So it's almost giving them a directory of the lifestyle and the lifestyle choices and nutrition that would be better for them. So what food should I be eating to make sure that that deficiency and that genetic potential that I've got doesn't kick in, and it's really interesting because you pick out little bits, don't you? And it's been revolutionally hormonal wise for my daughter, but for my boys they're really, really sporty and their life is. They're like Duracell batteries they always have, I think. Fortunately, they just kept running and that was good and then slept, which is a blessing, isn't it?

32:50

But when I did their DNA, they've got lots of things that need to be sort of honed in and sort of looked at. But one of the things for them was being sporty boys. They would say make green smoothies. So they may say, right, I'm going to make a green smoothie.

33:03

Now, one of their gene tendencies is an enzyme, which means that they cannot easily excrete pesticides, so they can't metabolize pesticides and glycophosphates, and so for them, the worst thing they could do is be sporty and exercising and doing everything. They can then come back home and make themselves a green smoothie, unless it was with organic greens, because immediately they're then purifying everything and almost making the body more toxic because they're putting products in in a liquefied thing that they know they're not going to be able to get rid of. So for them to know that at this stage in their life, I think is is hugely important and just even that sort of subtle thing for me to be able to explain to them who in time they will become more interested, but at the moment it's more like oh mum, why can't we eat that anymore?

Dr Olivia KesselHost

33:54

yeah, yeah, yes, exactly but then it's.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

33:58

It's immediately sort of that is right now, organic is important. But also for me, interestingly, that gene tendency improves as we get older. So if I'd have known that when they were even smaller, for me I'd have been able to make a choice to say, right, well, actually it's even more important in their developmental years to only have organic food. So it would be a choice, you know, because actually then it was more important when they were younger to make sure that they didn't have as many pesticides, and obviously we all know that. But actually for them that extra exposure could have been additive to some of the environmental struggles with their dyslexia that they were having.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

34:36

It's super fascinating and you know it's as you said I think you said it to me before you know, one person's superfood is another person's poison and so, and that's quite dramatic, you know, and unless you actually have done the testing and know how, can you?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

34:49

how can you be?

34:50

in the dark we look at it, don't we? And we think you know it's all about not letting your genes be your destiny At the end of the day, isn't it? Is we can control the outcome to a degree, body is more prone to cellular inflammation, and because we're more prone to have an abnormal inflammatory response to an infection or we're not able to absorb our anti-inflammatory vitamins A, d and K effectively, then actually we're at more risk of cellular inflammation, and cellular inflammation is effectively the root cause of aging, isn't it? It's the root cause of chronic disease, cancers, aging it switches on autoimmunity. So if we know that we can dampen down and do everything we can to be our nutritional, biological best and reduce things like inflammation, then all it means we're going to do is hopefully, is age better, age well. We're all going to hopefully live long, but we want to live long healthily, don't we? It's all about longevity as well as optimizing acute symptoms, and I think there's a different stage in everybody's life to be thinking is this something that you know would be good for me, and I think the difficulty is is it's?

36:00

You know? We've only known the DNA genome, haven't we for the last 20 years? So this is really at the forefront of looking at this, isn't it? And you know, over the next years it's going to be interesting for anybody that's at all interested in it to see the direction that it goes, because we are going to be able to do more research, looking at more genes and the impact that has on conditions. And yeah, I just find it, it's just wonderful. It is really, really interesting because I see the clients and they've filled out a comprehensive health questionnaire and then, in conjunction with that and the reports I get and I only use an extremely reputable company to analyze our DNA, I use a company called LifeCodeGX which are the research on the variants that they look at is in depth. They only look at genes that we know you can make an actual change to. So it's really good quality testing. That is just. I've lost my train of thought now where we were on the.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

37:07

No, no, no, I get. What you're saying is it's basically, but, but by able to do this and to be able to take, uh, take the, the individual, and put them through this testing, which then can enable them to make change. So it's not just about doing testing for the sake of testing or or making the bio more, understanding it more. It's really about which genes can you actually have an impact with as a person, or as a mother for your child? That's going to have an impact on their health and their well-being and as a founder of Renewed Health.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

37:37

It's difficult because these tests are expensive, so I appreciate it.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

37:41

Yeah, that's a question I have for you too how expensive?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

37:44

are they? The neurological test, the nervous system test, is about £499, which is expensive and is out of range for a lot of people. But when the information that will give you is unreal and it doesn't change, that is the thing you've got to remember. Lots of people are spending a lot of money on having functional tests, are spending a lot of money on having functional tests. So, when we look at the difference between functional tests and DNA tests, functional tests are a snapshot in time of what your body is doing at that point, isn't it? What are nutrient levels, what are metabolic levels, what are things that are going on at that time?

38:22

The fact when the tests that we do, which are your DNA, your DNA doesn't change and that's the bit people often struggle to understand. But they say but you're telling me it's changed, so why isn't it going to continue to change? But the point is is your DNA is fixed? The reports that we do for you will show you the genes that have the potential to change and, clinically, we're able to then assess whether those changes may have already occurred because of the symptoms you're experiencing, or we can advise what you can do to make sure that those gene tendencies that can compromise your health. Aren't switched on, so that.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

38:58

Yeah, it's kind of I look at it as kind of your genes stay the same, your DNA stays the same. The recipe is the same, but it's whether or not you express it. So do you put the cream in the recipe or is it just listed on the recipe? You know, and depending on what you know, who's cooking, it's going to change, so you have an opportunity to. It's not completely predetermined because of the fact that the expression Absolutely, and I think that's it, isn't it?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

39:25

You can? You know these reports. So my children, my children, you know, age 16, 17 or whenever we did them, is that, is it so we can, any stage in their life, anything that happens, we can dip back and say, oh, that's probably now why that is, this is what we need to do. So you've, you've, you've got your library. That is there, which begs the question why don't we all have it done at birth, isn't it? You know, if know, if you think about it logically, if what we did is everybody had this done at birth, there's nothing scary. That's the thing I often say to people. Don't think I'm going to turn up a load of scary stuff. All I'm going to do is give you knowledge to allow you to choose the lifestyle that you would benefit your genes.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

40:06

And then really help your healthy outcomes. And a lot of things that people think are determined by genes are not Like, for example, breast cancer. It's not determined by genes. It's a very small percentage I think it's 1% but we all know the BRCA gene and we all fear for it. But actually it's more life and it's more things like drinking wine and stuff like that that can cause it. But our health and what we can actually determine in terms of what we eat and I think it is the way that we will go in the future you know where we will have. You know this will become. The further the technology goes along, the cheaper it will get and the more commonplace, plus all the resources that we waste running tests on people who are constantly in healthcare systems because we can't figure out what's wrong with them, and I think that's the point, isn't it?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

40:53

But what we don't want and I think this is the other thing, isn't it is the reports are useless to somebody without interpretation, and that's difficulty. There will be direct-to-consumer tests that people will be able to do and they'll just be given prescription supplements. This is your need. Well, actually, you know it's all in context. We know that if we look at your DNA, lots of those greater needs may not be apparent at the moment. So if you just knew that and you knew what you needed to eat to improve that, that's got to be the best thing, hasn't it? It's got to be.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

41:29

Yeah, and like you were saying, like with the comp gene, like it depends on what you're starting out with. So it depends on your clinical history, it depends on your nervous system, your hormones. It's not an isolation. The testing it's one part of the puzzle, but a very key part of the puzzle, absolutely.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

41:44

And exactly that when we look at women's health. The thing that worries me is that actually you know our comp gene, which is all part of a process called methylation, and it's one of those things that you know. If anybody wants to do anything from after the podcast, if the only thing they remember is look at methylation because it's mind blowing, but it's fundamental to everything and that is one of the biggest things that has an impact on women, who probably struggle more in the perimenopause, because it's all about B vitamins and choline, and sometimes certain elements of our methylation are estrogen dependent. So not only as our estrogen levels start to decrease can our nervous system hormones, our serotonin, our dopamine start to wobble, but also our methylation, which is almost like our foundation and our protection of our DNA, starts to drop. So that's when more disease, more conditions, autoimmune conditions and things can more of those expressions, more of those genes get turned on Absolutely.

42:43

So the minute you then can see those ladies, which elements of their methylation do we need to support? You know, it's almost like the center pin of everything and everything starts to settle down again. So it's those sort of it's looking at which are the key elements that people can do. But actually if your methylation slows down, that then affects things like your COMT gene. So if you've always been a lady who actually has always processed your hormones well, so you've never really had any problems with your hormones, but actually, as COMT slows, that plug is staying in the bathtub for longer. So we are there's lots of ladies now who are choosing HRT for all the right reasons. It's a huge benefit on health. It's the only way you can replace low estrogen levels, but done on its own, it's just half the story, isn't it? We've got to look at nutrition, we've got to look at lifestyle, we've got to look at all the other hormones. But actually my worry is that those ladies who are putting the hormones back in for a much longer period of time now, whose COMT gene, for instance, may be slowing because methylation is slowing, then those hormones are staying around for a lot longer, and what we don't want. As we get older, when our prevalence of things like breast cancer gets higher, is we don't want more hormones. We want the right hormones in our body for the right amount of time, to be excreted in the appropriate way. So we get all the benefits but none of the longer term risks. So it really is. For me, I feel so passionately about it. It's the root cause and actually making sure that we're not just putting sticky plasters on. We do a lot of that in medicine, don't we? And in the menopause I desperately don't want women to have sticky plasters just put on to buffer some of the symptoms. But it's, you know. Today, you know we were reflecting more. That's how I sort of came about it.

44:30

But for our neurodiverse children it's exactly the same, isn't it? It's we know that there's usually a trigger. The people I see they say well, I knew he always had autism, he always had signs of ADHD. I knew he always had autism, he always had signs of ADHD. But actually, you know, it was that morning that we woke up, that I just never know why those ticks started. What happened, what was it that made that switch? And quite often you know it's then a picture, isn't it? We take the history. We look at the timeline and it was the final straw. It was the final straw on a child who actually has much higher need for the anti-inflammatory essential fatty acids vitamin D, you know, has a higher genetic tendency to have an adverse response to infection. The genes back up and immediately the anxiety levels go down, the cellular inflammation goes down, they sleep better and everybody's nuances, everybody's bits of neurodiversity that impact their life can be sort of improved and it's something that you can do, you know, before diagnosis, before you get prescribed something.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

45:39

it's something that you can actually, you know, do in a very thought out, educated, empowered way with your children. You know, it's definitely something I'm going to be thinking about with my daughter as well, because, you know, we've just done the scattergun approach, which is, you know, we try stuff, we see how it works, and then you know and try and keep you know as much of a healthy diet as possible. But that's what we do, isn't it?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

46:01

And as parents, it's sort of it's like I'll try anything, I'll try anything and then it's well, how long do I try this for? Is it going to work or isn't it? Did I stop it too soon, or should I try a bit more? Or did that aggravate it? Or was it that they had a cold at the same time and that's why it was a cold rather than the new medication?

46:16

Or, and again, it's a bit like, isn't it medication as I know you, you feel as well, it has a role and it can be life-changing in so many people. But then it's a bit like the HRT, isn't it? It's a magic bullet perceived to make it all right. And then, for poor women who try HRT and it doesn't work, it's a bit like well, what now? And if we put people on some of the ADH medication and it's like, well, it's fine, but it takes my appetite away or it gives me that anxiety, but I'm prepared to put with that because my concentration is a bit better, it's almost well. What else can we look at? Why is it? How can we fine tune it to you to allow you to have the right dose of the medication you need, but nutritionally supporting you in the other elements?

Dr Olivia KesselHost

47:02

And that ties me back to why we don't learn this in medical school because it is so important. I mean for my own health. I mean that's. You know I have psoriatic arthritis and like for me not that I've had genetic testing, but I know diet is so super important. I've done a psoriatic diet to see what it is and it really reduced my inflammation and my joint pain, whereas my GP said to me what about stronger painkillers, olivia? What about? You know, I'm like no, I don't want to be zonked out of my mind, but you know what I mean.

47:26

It's a we have to understand and I think you know you and I are preaching from the same philosophy, which is basically, medication doesn't work in isolation, nutrition doesn't work in isolation, lack of sleep doesn't work in isolation, or exercise. You need all we are all those things and you need them all to be fine tuned for us to actually function properly and they're all interconnected and they're all interlaced. You know, and you might not need medication, you might really need medication, but understanding that and just having medication, I mean first of all. I mean I used to lecture on adherence and you know, 50% of people don't even take medication, and then those that do take it, they don't remember how to take it properly. They don't listen to us as a doctor which was really shocking to me when I looked at the research but they don't. They don't even remember correctly what we tell them. I used to think that my you know, my patients listen to everything. I said, no, not only do they not listen, they don't remember. So really, how powerful is medication really, you know, um, but it does have its place for me. Hrt has been amazing for my daughters, so has adhd medication, but it's in combination with nutrition, and this is the final piece, which is why it's been so fascinating today.

48:32

To talk to you is okay. Then how can we do it with knowledge? How can we know what our blueprint is and make sure? So I mean, you know, you've got me excited about getting a genetic test. I'm going to save my pennies, um, as I'm sure a lot of my listeners will too. We'll have your details in the show notes so that other people can can look into that. And also, if you have any good links to methylation, that would be good. I can include that.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

48:56

There's lots of information on the website for people to to read, and I think, and I think it's one of those things, isn't it is? It's a bit like, uh, you know exactly this. It's sort of you know, we've got to remember that medication drains nutrients as well, so sometimes it's it's you know, it's adding fuel to the fire, and um, and and and and that's the thing you know. Until the medical profession are are taught in this way, you know which it got to come into the curriculum. It's it's. We've got to use the skills of good quality nutritionists in conjunction to make us a force to be reckoned with. And um, you know, I often in my general practice consultations.

49:30

Now, it's really interesting, isn't it? Because I am sort of I think functional medicine is just so important and it's looking at the whole picture. And it's really interesting, though, because you can. You can do consultations and you can spend the whole of the consultation explaining to people. Right, let's look back through your notes.

49:45

Your low B12 in the past, your low vitamin D, your chronic fatigue it's all part of the same picture, and that's why and you pull it all together for them. Or your gestational diabetes means that you are always going to be more prone to blood sugar dysregulation. So these are things that, as you get older, they were there, they were the indicators, but we can see this on your DNA and you give them all this information and you can get 50% of the people in your GP consultation that jaw has dropped. They've looked at you and went, oh my God, I've never had a GP consultation like that. And they go out with their bits of paper that I've visually written all over it and they're off. They're off and they're then signposted to to do their own, their own exploring, and it's just wonderful. And then you can have exactly the same conversation with and the other 50% say, great, that's great. Right, where's my prescription, you know? And, yeah, hold on it. So, after all that, what are you giving me? Uh, nothing, just the knowledge. But again, but, but, again.

50:45

But that's because that's how we've been taught, that's how the general public you go to the GP and give your symptoms, and then we give you a tablet for it, and then you choose to take that, and if that doesn't work, we'll send you to a hospital department that works in silos, so you'll see the cardiologist, who won't then talk to the endocrinologist. But the joy of this, and the joy of looking at ourselves as a whole, is looking at the root cause, and genetics just allows you to do that, which I just think, yeah, is mind-blowing, isn't it? And just to say I think the other thing is.

51:22

The thing that's so rewarding to me is if you do a nervous system report on somebody, which you know is always so beneficial to people with neurodiversity. But it is so empowering. You can have somebody that has spent a lot of their life being anxious. You know, everybody tells me to stop worrying. I just can't stop worrying, you know. And then you show them on paper how they're wired and it's almost like, oh my, if I'd have known that I'd have been less hard on myself. I thought I was pathetic. I thought why couldn't I cope in the same situation as my friend, um, I'm just weaker and actually when they can see how they're wired, they it's just again. It's so empowering. But also you now know what you can do about it to to optimize that and be kind to yourself and look at different sort of lifestyles and nutrition to bolster that nervous system to allow you to be more resilient.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

52:10

And that is I mean you have just sold it as to why my daughter is going to be having this in the near future, because, you know, once we've saved up the money, because you know, that is one of her key things as well, and I think it's a lot. Anxiety is huge for kids with neurodiversity, and adults too, so it's massive. Now we are running out of time and I know I've already used a lot of your time, your precious time, jill, which has been so appreciated. I usually ask if you have any three tips that you could give to parents and our listeners that they could take home with them. You've told us so many amazing things today, but are there three that really stand out for?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

52:43

you. I think for me, what I would say is you know, sort of we all want to give our children the best start in life, don't we? And we scramble around and, like you say, we scatter all sorts of different things, and you know nutrigenomics will give you that answer. We know, but it's cost, you know. It's sort of it's out of some people's gift. I appreciate that and that is the difficulty. But so for those people who've got that gift and that ability to be able to get that information, great, All I would say is make sure that you go to a reputable company.

53:13

It doesn't have to be me, it doesn't have to be, but actually I see a lot of people who've spent a lot of money elsewhere then coming to me saying but I still don't understand it. For me, people have got to understand it, and that is. I'm a very sort of I like to simplify things, I'm a very simple person. I'd like to do that for you, For anybody who can't afford that. Then, obviously, we know we look at the main nutrients in neurodiversity that tend to help, don't they? The zinc, B6, omega-3s, magnesium, iron, all those factors, and you know, maybe small doses of that, oh, absolutely and protein.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

53:45

That's what makes your dopamine isn't it and serotonin.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

53:47

So those are the important things, that where people can then look at doing a bit more reading themselves. So that is stuff that people could put in in a safe way.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

53:53

Speak to a nutritionist, go to a good health food shop, um, and then for me, I suppose and that's also something you can do a trial and error as well, because that's what you know, that because you do see an impact Absolutely, and I think, if you're prepared to try one thing at a time, then that's really interesting, isn't it?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

54:08

Do one thing at a time, see how it goes, and then see the outcome and add something else in, and then I suppose the third thing I would say is is, generally, it's just really, if we do nothing else today, it's almost sort of opening people's eyes to the importance of epigenetics, really.

54:27

So it is. It's about the environment, isn't it? And although some might say you can't change the environment that is around you, if we have the knowledge to know which environment we need around us, then we can make choices. And I think it's. You know, it's things as simple as the products we put on our skin, you know the stress that we put on our lives, all those things that can have different impacts on different people, and it's just it's having that knowledge, isn't it? And I think you know to have that on board in the future is going to maintain wellness for people, and that's all I would ask people to do is look at reputable sites, get reputable information and just sort of stay well, yeah, I think those are three great tips and I think you know, as we progress, this will become more accessible.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

55:13

Just like you know, the first, the new iPhones, cost a lot and then they decrease in value in all these things. I think it will. It will, just how long that's going to take. Who knows? Um, you know it will become more accessible and it is really key that you find the right people, because, unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there selling snake charms and selling, you know, reports that aren't reputable. So, um, you know, and I don't know how this is governed as a, as a discipline?

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

55:39

again, it is. It's. It's a very specialist area, isn't it? And it's knowing. It's using companies that do their research well for the gene tests to give us the correct information, to then allow practitioners and doctors or specialists like me to hand that information over in an in-context way. It's really important, for it's in context of that person's needs, not just bog standard algorithms.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

56:04

And I would ask for testimonials as well from other people and stuff like that as well. So, you know, always forewarned is forearmed and it you know, when we do it we'll be going to you. So I will include, as I said, your details in the show notes, and it's been an absolute pleasure. So interesting. I'm going to be studying this up as well because it's just you've, it's just fascinating, it's really fascinating, and you know what this is. This is the way of the future and it's a way that we can just really, you know, focus on our wellbeing, our personalized medicine.

Dr Jill CrowfootGuest

56:33

Not at all. It's a pleasure to be here.

Dr Olivia KesselHost

56:35

Thank you. Thank you for listening. Send Parenting Tribe. A quick reminder Don't forget to join our private Send Parenting community by clicking on the link in the show notes or by private messaging me on the number that I've left there. I look forward to hearing from you all. Next week is half turn. How can that possibly be true? Where does time go? Next week, the podcast is going to have my daughter, alexandra, who's going to take us through an update on how school has been so far, how it is to have ADHD and how she's gotten used to taking her medications, and she's also going to give us some tips for parents and, I guess, for me. So hopefully you'll enjoy that. It'll be a light episode and it'll definitely be a window into the soul of one of our neurodiverse children, in particular my one. Anyway, wishing you some good quality time next week and, as always, look forward for you joining us.