EP 74: Creating Supportive Nurseries with Amber Jayne

Please excuse any errors from this autogenerated transcript

Dr Olivia KesselHost00:06

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. In this episode, we're going to be joined by Amber Jane, early childhood expert, talking about all things related to early years, from picking a nursery to starting your own nursery business. She shares with us her journey with her four children and finding the right educational early year setting for her neurotypical and her neurodiverse kids. Before we start, though, a quick call to action to rate the show if you are listening in Apple podcast, so that Send Parenting podcast will be made more visible to more parents on the platforms, because then we work within their algorithm. So go to the Send Parenting homepage I think you click on show, scroll down to the bottom and please rate us.

01:28

So welcome, amber. It's a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast and I can see we both like the color red, so we obviously are both very stylish, so very excited to have you today, all the way from the United States of America. You know you as an expert in early childhood education. I'm super excited to talk to you. You've published a guidebook which helps others to create their own thriving preschool or what we would call in the UK a nursery, but basically for children aged zero to five. And reading your bio and talking to you before, I could only describe your life as one of an exceedingly good survivor. You know you've weathered triumphs and you've weathered storms and setbacks and I think it would be really great to start the podcast with telling us a little bit about your journey your abusive marriage to founding your own preschools, to writing the ABCs of Preschool, your Guidebook toning, operating and Thriving in Early Childhood Education. So I will hand it over to you to just tell us a little bit about your story. Well, thank you.

Amber JayneGuest02:33

I'm so happy to be here, so I appreciate it. There's been a lot in my life. I believe life is beautifully messy is like what I like to call it. So life is a series of a lot of light and sometimes really messy. And yeah, I got married really young, at 19. And I was in a very hard marriage for almost 17 years. I also have four beautiful children 17 years. I also have four beautiful children. So I will never look back in any regret because I have the most amazing humans in my life.

03:13

But I think, from the stress of the marriage, I started my business at 23. I opened up my preschool but I think, with learning how to be an entrepreneur, being in a really difficult marriage, I ended up having breast cancer at 31. And I had no family history. And I look back thinking as moms, we give so much to everybody else parents in general that sometimes we forget to be our own advocate and take care of ourselves, and so my coping mechanism for years was work, work, work, be busy, busy, busy and then ignore everything else that's going on. And it caught up to me. So, yeah, it's been 15 years cancer free. It's such a gift to be here. There's so many people that I met along my journey that are no longer here. So I feel like it's such a gift that life we have to go full force at it, right, because we never know what tomorrow holds. So that's a little bit about me.

Dr Olivia KesselHost04:27

So, yeah, words to live by Amber. You know what I mean and you've really you've taken adversity in your stride and made some real positives and throughout all of that you've been really focused on what is the best kind of early education for children, which is so important. I mean, that's where our little you know plants start to nurture and grow is in those early years. And you've created this book which is kind of like the ABCs or guides. Can you take us a little bit through, like how it works and how a person would use it?

Amber JayneGuest05:01

Yeah, I'm really excited about the book. I've been in the early childhood field since I was 19. And thankfully, no matter all the trials I've gone through, my school was my foundation, my kids, my school. And I love the early years and you know, from zero to five years, I think they're so critical, so important and so magical. And opening up my own school at 23, I had no idea what I was doing, I knew that I loved kids, but the guidebook is really.

05:34

I've been in the business almost 30 years but it's really 23 years of knowledge of everything that I've learned how to have a high quality, thriving nursery school, as you guys call it, we call it preschool, and it's really just all the tips and tricks of everything from marketing to starting it to hiring curriculum, just everything. And I talk about my failures too, Like if I can just just everything. And I talk about my failures too, Like if I can just. I learned these lessons and so I'm really excited because I think it's so important to provide high quality care in these years, especially their little sponges. They learn so much so quickly and the amount of growth that happens is so exciting.

Dr Olivia KesselHost06:23

Yeah, and it's. It's also empowering because, as a mother and as a way to support yourself, there's there's an element of that as well, that you know it's not, which is what I found interesting about your book. It's not just about, um, uh, what's important for children, but it's also about creating a business yourself as well a business yourself as well.

Amber JayneGuest06:50

I am a firm believer on standing on our own two feet as women, and I have a daughter and she's almost 18 and she works and she's got a savings and she's proud to pay for things on her own, because that my job, my career, the schools and being financially stable on my own really allowed me to get out of an abusive marriage and to start over from scratch. So that's another reason why I'm so passionate about this is because you can start a school in your home. You can help provide for your family. I loved being able to provide as well for my kids to earn my own money, but also making an impact while I was earning my money. So it's really a beautiful job, especially for parents, because my kids were always in the mix, they were always in the school and I could float, I could be owner. If I was nursing, I could just step back, I could be director, I could be teacher. So and now you know, 23 years later, I I'm just owner and I have a full team, and it's amazing.

Dr Olivia KesselHost08:02

And you know you said you have four children as well, which is so you know you're juggling that alongside it and you know that most of my listeners have neurodiverse children and when we first started talking to each other and I got to know you a bit more, you shared with me how two of your children have done really well in like the traditional mainstream kind of schooling. But then two of your children are a little bit neuro spicy and they haven't fit into the square peg round hole kind of analogy. So you know you do have experience in this. Yeah, my first two, my oldest two kids kind of soared through school.

Amber JayneGuest08:51

It was very easy for them. My two younger ones struggled from day one and, looking back my mistakes, I wish I would have yanked them sooner and not had them struggle. And my youngest, especially my daughter, really had struggled and I did yank her. In fourth grade she went to a really small Waldorf school and just for people who don't know what fourth grade is.

Dr Olivia KesselHost09:20

And just for people who don't know what fourth grade is how old was she?

Amber JayneGuest09:24

She was 10. So I removed her from traditional school around 10 when finally in the US they do a lot of testing when they're around 8 or 9. And it finally proved that she was so far behind in school and the school we were attending at the time did not believe in holding children back or you know, all her.

Dr Olivia KesselHost09:53

We have a common problem here in the UK too. They do not. You really have to fight, even if it's a summer born baby, you have to fight, yes.

Amber JayneGuest10:00

You have to fight and they brought in a team of like psychologists I mean there was like six people at a table with us basically saying that she has to continue on this way and soul destroying, exactly. So we yanked her from traditional school and that was our beginning path of. She kind of bounced around a little bit but we've just learned. So she's done most of her education in a very small, small group setting and that's been the best for her and she is on track to hopefully graduate in a few months from high school. Yes, I can see the proud mommy smile.

10:39

Yeah, it's been a lot of tears, a lot of heartbreak, a lot of stress and anxiety on her part and stress and anxiety for me and just watching her struggle.

Dr Olivia KesselHost10:54

Yeah, no, it's a. It's a. You know it's, it's not easy and you know, having two kids go through it normally and then and then struggling, you know some parents have that the reverse way around and they and they, you know. So it takes even longer for that penny to drop. That it's not working, you know, and it's um. I think homeschooling is on the rise, both in the UK, definitely because education just isn't well, it's not really fit for purpose, in my opinion, for anybody.

Amber JayneGuest11:20

But um, no, I totally agree with you and you know it's funny because all my kids now are older. They all are talking about homeschooling their own kids. Interesting, and I think the next generation coming up is so over traditional schools and being put into a box and feeling it's so unfortunate because we're training our children to feel like a failure if they do not get into that box. And they are not a failure. All of us learn different. You know interpret things differently, so it's very interesting my kids are already talking about when they have children in a homeschool.

Dr Olivia KesselHost12:04

Yeah, either the education system has to change dramatically. And I mean in the UK it's even worse than in the US because they have these things called GCSEs which they give to children around the age of 16. And it's designed to fail a third of them if they change the test so that a third of them fail. But the message that they give those children at a very vulnerable point in their brain development and their hormonal lives, is that if you don't do well in these exams it's going to screw up the rest of your life. And so the pressure. They're about to start them in about three weeks here. So it's a hot topic, but it's just like the kids aren't told that. The kids aren't told that a third of you are going to fail. You kids aren't told that a third of you are going to fail. You all must succeed. It's just utterly ridiculous. At 16, your life course is charted by some ridiculous standardized test. It's horrible.

Amber JayneGuest12:50

And at 16, your world. You know my daughter's in high school, so, like I keep trying to explain to her, this is not the real world. You know this little bubble. There's so much more out there. So what was social media for the 16 year olds? It's just, that's so devastating, right, and but so many of our greats have never even gone to college or you know like they're these amazing entrepreneurs and but when you're that young, you just don't understand. So that's really, really unfortunate.

Dr Olivia KesselHost13:20

Yeah, no, and I think that's why you know more and more people are. I think, hopefully, it'll give education the kick up the backside. It needs to change, change the way it is and change how it functions, but it basically needs to be burned down and started from the beginning again. But talking about education, though, because within your preschool and with your early education, you have some, you know key ways in which your curriculum is developed and what you think is important, and I think it has a lot of applicability actually in the neurodiverse space as well and actually onwards in terms of future education. But can you take us through, kind of some of your main philosophies?

Amber JayneGuest13:55

Yeah, I believe in all the amazing philosophies Montessori, waldorf, play, academics. I really truly believe that every child is unique. Every child should be celebrated and accepted just as they are. So we really provide a wide range of curriculum. We have sensory, we have outside play, we've got a little bit of academics because they do need to be prepared for, you know, for big school. Lots of play, I just really believe on hands-on learning, lots of music. So we just provide a very wide range because we want all of our little ones to love school and feel successful and really our goal is to set, you know, begin, a love of learning at this very young age so they can go into elementary school or they go to the primary years, just really prepared.

14:55

But I believe if they don't want to do a project, they don't have to do a project. You know they're little and I, half of our program is outside, so we do half inside and half outside, even if it's drizzling rain. I think nature gardening it's so important and our young people. When my kids were little, the phones and internet was just very new. So now we have kids coming through with technology and everything is so you have to be entertained, all the new. So now we have kids coming through with technology and everything is so you have to be entertained all the time. So I think it's really important to get kids little ones, back outside in nature to get grounded.

Dr Olivia KesselHost15:34

It's so important from, like you know, endorphins, serotonin, from a just a you know, and, as you say, a centering kind of kind of you know and and, as you say, a centering kind of um kind of you know, grounding, um, perspective it's, it's, it's so key and so important because I mean it. It in the UK now they've just you know, they're just putting through you know a law or that you know talking about not having phones in schools, and I was like, what do you mean? Isn't that already a law? Like, are you kidding me? Like in our secondary school, which is high school in the US, no kids have their phones in the classroom, they use them, and you know. Then they put, I mean, so they're on them constantly during the day at school as well. I mean, yeah, I couldn't believe it. I was like you know why would you allow that?

Amber JayneGuest16:18

Yeah, no, it's, our kids are. No, it's, our kids are well as adults. I mean, how many of us are on our phones all day long and we're the example of our children, and not great modeling? No. And my daughter is 17 now. We just had this conversation and she said you know my generation, everybody, we all have so much depression and anxiety and they just feel so alone because as adults we can understand social media's fate right and and it's not life, but even adults don't.

Dr Olivia KesselHost16:50

I mean, I'm sorry, but let's look at trump as far as and, and you know, let's look at let's look at what. Look at anti-vaxxers. Okay, I'll just name, you know we can see where I stand on those, the, the both of those points.

16:59

But adults believe a lot of the fake news and you know it's so, so I think it's it's. It's challenging for all of us, and as AI gets more intelligent, it's going to be even more difficult, so having that away time and focusing on other things is going to become more and more crucial.

Amber JayneGuest17:17

It is more and more crucial. I think we need to like with the little ones coming, really have boundaries with technology, things like that.

Dr Olivia KesselHost17:25

So yeah, but you know it's interesting because and sorry, we're going a little bit off piece here, but it is an interesting topic because, also, you know, I've had a clinical psychologist on the show and she's like Olivia and she really made me challenge this.

17:37

She's like you know, if you continually control your child's device time, okay, and therefore that you know they're eventually going to leave your house, what have you prepared them for? You've told them that it's only something that you get when it's special, you get it as a reward or it gets taken away. Yet You're on it all the time, you know. You know, so you're, you know. So she really made me think about it and I said you know what? How can I teach my child to be more in control of it and to value putting it down and kind of changing that? So I took away screen time. I took away, you know, and it's not a perfect, it's not a perfect solution, and sometimes you know I have to actually say enough now. But it's like let's go and do something else. Let's go and, do you know, go do dancing, go do. And it is slowly. She is like you know what? I don't want to be on my device anymore. I'm going to go play with my dolls now. I'm going to go do this now and it's so.

18:28

It's a you know, trying to teach them so that when they're adults and I had, I have a great um I had a great au pair, her friends. They used to go out and or out at a restaurant, whatever, they'd have to pay for everything. Well, soon they stopped bringing the phones out because they didn't want to end footing the bill for everybody. And I was like, wow, you are a clever 18 year old, you know. But it's like it's thinking of of those ways and actually getting them to realize that and it's modeling, right, it's modeling your behavior too.

18:57

If the phone pings and you're sitting at dinner, you leave it. You don't go and run to it. All you know Um, which is hard for you know, it's hard for nerdiverse kids too, because it's it's a high dopamine kick that you're getting out of YouTube, out of games, out of um. You know they're, they're very clever, so it's a highly addictive Um, but yeah, so, um, it's, it's challenging, I think. I don't think there's any right or wrong answers, but it's definitely. How can you get your kid to not be on the screen so much, and do you see it in zero to five-year-olds?

Amber JayneGuest19:29

I mean, do kids come in to no, no, I don't see any child have cell phones. That's good. Yeah, I know Because you do in restaurants. Yes, well, I was going to say you see it in the restaurants, right?

Dr Olivia KesselHost19:42

So but yeah, not in school. Yeah, and even that, like you know, we had an adult dinner with my daughter the other day and I said okay, you're going to sit and be polite and talk and eat throughout the entire meal and when we're done with dessert. I didn't tell her this, but at the end you know we were talking, the conversation was way overhead I said you know what? Now you can go on Netflix and you can watch something. Now You've participated and you've been part of the conversation and you've joined in and now it's getting a bit boring. You can have a bit, but so it's finding those balances and I think that's just parenting, right, like it's so hard.

Amber JayneGuest20:16

We just always have to find the balance for everything on this journey, so yeah, and sometimes we get it right.

Dr Olivia KesselHost20:22

Sometimes we get it totally wrong. Exactly Now, when I talked to you beforehand, you described to me the four senses rule. Can you enlighten my listeners about the four senses rule?

Amber JayneGuest20:35

Yes, so I know we have five senses, but when you're looking for a school, a high-quality program, I like to say, use your four senses. And the first one is sight. What does it look like? Is it clean, Is it organized? Is there like really nice paint on the wall? Are the teachers smiling? So really use your site to see and check it out, because that will tell you a lot right away. The second one is smell. I'm huge on schools and programs smelling good. You know our senses. Our smell tells us a lot, so you want it to be and they often don't smell good, don't they?

Dr Olivia KesselHost21:17

They smell like you.

Amber JayneGuest21:18

Yeah, and I know, with little ones especially, I know that little kids produce a lot of smells, but it is really important. My staff, my teachers, know like every single classroom and we have 12 between my schools needs to smell good, like all the time essential oils or whatever, just needs to smell homey and inviting. The third one is hearing. What does it sound like? Are kids screaming? Are they angry? Are teachers engaged and happy? Do you hear laughter? Do you hear music? So really listen to what's going on. Are the teachers being respectful in how they talk to children? And the last one is how does it make you feel you should walk in and when you know you've found the right program for your child, you should really have those warm fuzzies. You should just know you get like okay, this is it, I found it. So that's what I usually say for the four senses.

Dr Olivia KesselHost22:21

No, and that's it's really great because you know it, it it kind of makes me even think of buying a house to a degree. You know what I mean. Like it, it. You know, you're, you're, you're doing like your surveyor report of of, uh, of where your child is going to be spending quite a bit of their time and making sure that you know it meets the standards of your own home. And, as you say, some of those details can actually inherently show more of an underlying issue. If the corners are dirty, if the paint is pilly, it shows a lack of care, a lack of professionalism. If they're allowing this to happen, how?

Amber JayneGuest22:55

long are they?

Dr Olivia KesselHost22:56

going to leave your child in their diapers, for you know it's really a good insight. Or look into how other behaviors could be that you won't see when you're not there.

Amber JayneGuest23:08

That is exactly it. If it is cluttery and dirty, imagine all the safety issues that are being left on the shelf and not being dealt with. If the teachers aren't even greeting you when you walk in, imagine what they're doing with your children. So exactly.

Dr Olivia KesselHost23:28

I think those are really good rules to live by and in terms of later education, because I think a lot of the things that we do in preschool education actually would benefit children further along the line. Why don't we still go outside? Why don't we still look at a multisensory approach? Why is it when they hit five, we throw that out the window?

Amber JayneGuest23:52

I have no idea. And kids are kids. We rush them into adulthood so fast, so quickly. Five-year-olds, six-year-olds, seven-year-olds there's so much pressure on doing well in this box than going to college or university. And all of us need to be outside, all of us need to be creative and painting and listening to music, like all of that is learning and it's beautiful and it's it's educational. So it's unfortunate, but I think it takes the conversation and others to change it up. Right, we have to talk about it and we have to change the system or we have to create programs that offer all of that. My daughter now is in the most amazing program. It's so tiny, but they're outside, they're doing resumes for a job, they're doing lots of life budgeting just so many different things that the traditional high school was not doing and she is thriving. It's thriving. So it's just taking this conversation and having others change the way it's being done. You know, yeah.

Dr Olivia KesselHost25:11

No, and it, you know, it's, uh, it's taking, you know, making sure, as you have as a parent, that you put your child in the right environment for them at that time. I'd also like to, before we, before we end this, to also talk about, like so, if I was a mom listening on this show, and often moms on this show, they have to exert a lot of energy with their children, who are neurodiverse and they're struggling with education, they're fighting the system and maybe, if they're just starting this journey, what you know, what tips and I'm going to ask you your three top tips later, but, like if I was wanting to start a nursery what you know and I'm interested, what, what are the like, the first steps to take?

Amber JayneGuest25:52

Um, I would check with your city first. It's always like your town, your city, to see what any rules are. I know for the states, every state has like an overarching educational office with like the rules and regulations, so I would definitely check into that here it would probably be the local authorities is how it would probably be and a lot we have, yeah, so it's probably the local authorities, and we have childminders who look after children in their homes and and and things like that.

26:28

So, yeah, it's uh I would start with that like kind of look at the outline, what do you need? What qualifications do you need? How does your home need to look like? You know, um, cause I know there's probably a lot of. There's inspections I know in the States we have some inspections before you open. Then you can like the fun part is like, what do you want to? How do you want to be as a school? What are your passions?

26:50

I always say, do you love music, do you love cooking? Like, really build your program around passions, passions and in the hours and times, like, if you don't want to work full time, I ran my program for nine years very part-time, just in the mornings, so I could go drop my children off at school, I'd come back, I would teach and then at 2.30, I would say goodbye to my students and get in my car and go pick up my kids. So really decide what you want and what would bring you joy, because as moms and parents we're already giving so much to our kids, so realize you'd be giving to other kids. So really just figure out exactly what are you capable and my encouragement is don't do more than don't sue off more. You know, don't do more than don't sue off more.

Dr Olivia KesselHost27:42

You know, don't do more than and I mean do, do. Was there ever a time? Or do parents ever have their own children in the school with them, or is that not? Yeah?

Amber JayneGuest27:53

Most of my kids went were in the program with me. Sometimes when I started teaching I would send them to a different program. Sometimes it depended. I have four just depended on. Most. All of them were at my program. One point my daughter was all the way through. So when you are teaching it is harder when your children are in there. But that's the beauty of it too. I mean, if they're well-behaved and they get along great, that's wonderful, you know. So it works.

Dr Olivia KesselHost28:29

But they may not be well-behaved.

Amber JayneGuest28:31

But sometimes I have one of mine. He just had a really hard time in the program and so I did have to. You know it wasn't the right fit, and I will be the first to say every child needs the right fit, so including my own.

Dr Olivia KesselHost28:51

Yeah, no, and that's, and that it's. It's so personalized and actually to to realize that you know your child doesn't fit in your own program that that takes a whole lot of honesty to be able to say, hey, this, this isn't working for us and I need to find a better environment for her. Because you need that raw kind of honesty to actually use those four senses rule that you talked about to be able to find the right educational setting for your child and, as you say, it differs from every child. You have Exactly More than one. Yeah, exactly. So there's a level of independence, there's a level of creating an environment that you're passionate about, because that passion will spread among the children as well.

Amber JayneGuest29:32

And really create a classroom. I think people make mistakes when it's home A program to really call it a daycare or there's like a misperception of a babysitter. So I would really encourage, if you're going to start a program in your house, really make it a school, look like a school, maybe dedicate a room that looks like a classroom and to really have like a good school schedule so when you're touring families they really know that you're legit.

Dr Olivia KesselHost30:06

Yeah, makes sense. Yeah, and then I suppose some parents also do it outside of their home as well.

Amber JayneGuest30:13

Yeah, you can find a commercial building. You know, I ran from my home for nine years and then I moved up to commercial buildings and that's a whole different ball game. So definitely check, maybe work with um, someone who specializes in finding the right building. But that's definitely the first step is to work with your city officials, authorities on that, especially because you know buildings need certain things for for kids.

Dr Olivia KesselHost30:42

Because you know buildings need certain things for kids. Yeah, absolutely To be. You know, even toilets and sinks, and things have to be different.

Amber JayneGuest30:49

Yes, exactly Because they're little people.

Dr Olivia KesselHost30:54

Yeah, yeah, and I guess you know all of these tips and how to do it is in your book, so we will have the link to your book in the podcast notes and on my website so people can click on that link, because it's a good in terms of guiding you to find the right school if you don't want to do this, but it's also good to help you if you want to do it yourself as well, so it's a good read from either perspective, I think.

Amber JayneGuest31:20

Yeah, and I think that even the book can work in a lot of different businesses too, because it's just leadership and it's just kind of a raw book on entrepreneurship too. Yeah, you know, but it's such a rewarding, I think, opening up schools and this business has been so rewarding for me that I know it could be so rewarding for so many others.

Dr Olivia KesselHost31:44

That's lovely. No, your passion definitely shines through. Well, as we wrap up the podcast, I always like to ask and I do forewarn because I'm not cruel what three top tips would you give parents out there that they can put in their back pocket and take away with them after listening to this podcast?

Amber JayneGuest32:00

Okay, my first one is be your child's advocate always and be your own advocate as well. So that's a double whammy your own, you know you might have multiple kids and what's worked for one and two of your kids or your first child may not work for your second. So really, our kids do not really have a voice. We are their voice, and so really being your own, your child's advocate, is so important. And then be your own advocate.

32:38

I made a lot of mistakes on putting everybody else first in my life. And to be the best mom, to be the best parent, we really have to take care of ourselves. We have to love ourselves and we have to get that rest that we need so we can give our energy to our kids. So if something's going on with you, you're not feeling right, be your own advocate. Take care of yourself. Tip two give yourself grace. Just as we are raising our kids and giving our kids grace all the time and patience, we have to have it for ourselves. We're learning how to be parents, just as our kids are learning how to grow up.

Dr Olivia KesselHost33:25

Yeah.

Amber JayneGuest33:26

And the last one is just love them fiercely. Our children are on their own journey and their own path, and loving them fiercely, accepting them just as they are and just being that encouragement for them is going to pay off so well as they're adults. And letting them fly, letting them be independent and watching them grow into beautiful butterflies is really going to serve them well in adulthood.

Dr Olivia KesselHost33:56

I think those are three lovely, lovely, lovely tips and words to live by, you know, because I think sometimes we forget a lot of those points in the rat race and what we think we're supposed to be doing and where we think our kids are supposed to be at. And, you know, listening to those tips and really realizing, you know we're all learning here. You know, we just need to provide the love and everything will turn out okay. Actually, you know, it's beautiful. Well, those are lovely words to end on Amber, and it's been a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting podcast. Thank you very much. Yeah, thank you, thank you for listening. Send Parenting Tribe. If you haven't signed up for our email list, I would recommend that you do Go to our website at sendparentingcom and fill in your contact details so we can alert you to special upcoming events and offers. Wishing you and your family a calm week ahead, thank you.