EP 36: Building strong relationships with wonderfully wired children as a SENDCO discussion with Ginny Bootman

Speaker Ginny Bootman

Please excuse any errors as this transcript has been automatically generated

Dr Olivia KesselHost00:06

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. In this episode we will be speaking with Ginny Bootman, an experienced teacher and Senko. With the responsibility of four primary schools and author of being a Senko, she is passionate about the impact of relationships within education, both with parents and children. With Sen, a good episode to listen to as we gear ourselves up to get ready to go back to school and navigate the education system with our wonderfully wired children.

01:18

Welcome, ginny, to the Send Parenting Podcast. It is such a pleasure to have you on the show today. I am really interested to get your perspective, from 18 years of being a Senko, in terms of what are the key ingredients to have a really healthy collaborative approach or should I say relationship with both the kids under a Senko's care, but also their parents. I would like to kick off by getting a better understanding of the Senko's role. It used to be, and still is in some schools, that you have one Senko per school. That is morphed out in some schools like multi-academy trusts to having a Senko looking after more than one school, which can work and also cannot work. I would like to get your perspective and your experience in terms of the challenges and also some of the things that have benefited from this switch and approach that some schools are taking. It is a big question, but I think it is an important one.

Ginny BootmanHost02:20

Hello from me. I think I have been very fortunate in my journey into becoming the Senko of four primary schools because I started off actually as the head teacher of one of the schools and was a Senko Then. I then became the Senko of my sister school. Then, two years ago, I became the Senko of the two other schools in my multi-academy trust. They are all in the same multi-academy trust and it has been a gradual role. My role has got larger over time.

02:59

I think it would be more challenging if you went straight into being the Senko of four schools. I remember somebody said to me once when they became the head of more than one school it is like having children you love them all the same, but you begin with one and then you have more. I have been very fortunate that I have acquired my children over time. I had my two children and then the twins, as it were. I got those two at the same time. I also knew the staff in my schools as well because we are in a multi-academy trust. That helped as well. I could use things that I had learnt within one school, replicate it, those things that work well in two, and then use those systems across four. It has been really helpful to be able to roll out successful systems across all four schools and therefore save time, because Senko's always want to find ways to save time so that they can then be in the classrooms with the children doing what we do best.

Dr Olivia KesselHost04:12

Absolutely. Time must be at a premium. With four schools under your remit and the amount of neurodiverse kids in the classroom, which I think is around 30%, it's quite a lot of kids. What are your thoughts in terms of Senko training for teachers and how do they gain experience and knowledge from you? I know it's lacking in their training, but it's so key and important that they understand how to meet the challenges in behaviors and in the needs of children who have special needs. Because in my opinion anyway, having this multi-school approach, your time is limited. You are going to have to rely on those teachers to be that first line and really be the ones that are picking up on when there are challenges, because sometimes the parents aren't aware of it, the teachers really are sometimes that first line. Then being able to communicate with you and get that knowledge and learn what they can do within their classroom to meet those needs, it must be really key to have that kind of relationship with the teachers.

Ginny BootmanHost05:25

Now that I'm the Senko of four schools, I am non-classroom based and that is really, really important. If I go back to when I was a Senko of one school and actually two schools, as many Senko's are, they have an afternoon a week for their Senro. So by being across the four schools and having a flexibility of time that's been given to me, it means that I work alongside the teachers so much more than I ever could do if I was within one school when I was class based. So I'm able to work alongside my colleagues and do little observations and have conversations with them so that I'm very approachable to the staff and those conversations don't become big conversations because we have a dialogue going. Also, we have systems in place so that if we feel that a child may benefit from, say, an outside agent coming in, we have set systems alongside me going into the classrooms. But the dialogue that I have with my colleagues, I think is the most important thing because it means people come and see me before things escalate and they actually invite me into their classrooms, which is brilliant. When I've been doing loads of paperwork, I call it my yum-yum time. I go into the classrooms and I say, can I just come in and I just have the most wonderful time. So me being in any of my classrooms is the usual. So I go in and people will ask me and then I can give them advice, and it is advice because they're in the classroom all the time. And they may say to me understandably, ginny, that won't work in my classroom, and I say that's absolutely fine, it's your classroom.

07:23

With regard to training, I think it's really important and once again, I'm really fortunate that I can see where the training needs are in the schools and across my multi-academy trusts. So sometimes we have training on training days for the whole of the multi-academy trust based on need, and I think training for staff has to be useful. It has to be useful and also I will say to my colleagues do you know what? There's a video or something that I think would be useful to you? And they go thanks, ginny, because we've got that relationship that I'm not just getting them to watch a video, it's a video or some training that will support them. I also think training should be shortened to the point because no one has got any time. No one has got any time and I'm all for advocating other people training the staff not just me, because I'm within the staff and to have external agencies coming out. It gives it in many ways more credence.

Dr Olivia KesselHost08:35

Really, and I think there is such a Almost like, you know, a plant needing water. You know, in the teaching profession as well as in the medical profession, there's a constant desire to keep learning and keep improving your skills, and you know it's so important. It's great to hear that your academy trust looks at that and you have kind of the oversight to see when, where the gaps are in that knowledge and to improve, because it's not the case, I don't think in all In all schools out. There are all situations that I've come across. It sounds like you know you're in a very good place and the people that you work with are in a very good place as well, which is probably what inspired you to Write your book on being a senko. But I won't put words into your mouth. What did inspire you? Because it sounds like you're pretty busy person with four schools and then you somehow, in your spare time, you know, wrote a book. Tell me a bit about your journey.

Ginny BootmanHost09:30

So yeah, so I have been so fortunate. It has been a series of fortunate events is not lemony snickers? Has been a series of fortunate events. That started in two thousand and nineteen. I went on some training and it was called the pace approach by dan hues and kim goulding, and it was to support children who have been through trauma, and I was like this has changed me. I've been teaching twenty five years.

10:02

I went on the training and I was like why did no one tell me about this approach? And I felt I needed to tell more people about it. And so I did a talk my first ever talk and in two thousand and nineteen and then, and at that talk, I went to see an amazing speaker and he took me under his wing and mentored me, olivia, he mentored me, and so that was great. And then Then we went into lockdown and I kept seeing these amazing talks by a company called independent thinking and they were amazing talks and I was like, oh, I can really resonate with that. What my classroom practices is absolutely what these amazing people are talking about.

10:52

And so then I did a guest blog for independent thinking, for engilbert, and then he just email me and said do you want to write a book and I was like yes, please.

11:07

So it was just yeah, exactly, it was just it's just been amazing that from me doing one talk and then me just finding these amazing individuals who I connect with, that then I was asked to write a book.

11:26

It has taken me two and a half years to write, so, and and and they were amazing. So ian gilbert, who runs independent thinking, he was like right, okay, jenny, just write down your top tips, just write them down and then we'll organize them. So I was just writing them down, writing them down and my book is very much me, it's an extension of me as a person just writing them all down and then I cut them all out, because I had to physically have them cut them all out. And then I got washy tape you know the tape and then I put them all in an order in a, in a, in a big book and then it became a book. So it's kind of one of those, one of those things that kind of you know it. It's kind of evolved and and happened and I just went happily, went along with it.

Dr Olivia KesselHost12:23

That's fantastic and you know you mentioned just just to take you back a bit in that journey you mentioned pace, which I don't think everyone who's listening will know what pace is. So if you could just highlight what pace is that started you on this journey for kids who've been through trauma and how you apply that to, I guess, all kids- yes.

Ginny BootmanHost12:42

So I went on a course and pace it stands for the p stands for playful, the a stands for accepting, the C stands for curious and the E stands for empathy. And I went on the course and it was saying to understand children who have been through trauma, have those four questions words in your mind as you are talking to them. And I said to the lady who was doing the course can I use this with all children? Because this is amazing. And she was like yeah, you can use it with all children. And so the way I spoke to children, staff, parents, my family let's get it out there changed because it was like, actually it's breaking down barriers. If I am, have a playful way about me, you have to be careful with that, because if a child has or somebody has done something that is not acceptable, then you know you have to think about how you are going to address that. But it's like, okay, my tone is really important. If someone does something, we have to accept that they've done that and actually by accepting it we kind of unravel unravel the ball of string and it becomes quite Addictive and quite fascinating because also, we're then curious and then we show more empathy.

14:18

So I had a child who threw a ball in the classroom, in the playground, and it hit a child and I use the pace approach and I said the ball is hit the linda in the face. And the child initially said, shout at me, that's what everyone does, let's just get it over with. And I was like, oh my goodness. And I said the ball ended up in belinda's face. But obviously you didn't do it on purpose, it was an accident, you know. And he was like, yeah, that's right.

14:56

Suddenly his shoulders went down. He went I didn't do it on purpose, I did it by accident. I must go in, so sorry, and it's that disarming in in in a fact that the individual disarms themselves, is just absolutely fascinating. And I went into my classroom once and I said I just need to have a chat with someone and someone put the hand up. They said it was me, mrs Boopman. I did so and so so and so so, and so I will try not to do it again. So the pace approach I would advocate everyone to look into it, because it is just Us being human and actually it's not an easy way out, because actually you get to talk to people in more depth about Incidents that have happened and I just find it amazing and I feel it sounds a bit much, but I feel blessed that I actually went on that course because that is what changed the course of things for me that's really interesting.

Dr Olivia KesselHost16:07

It's kind of like changing your lens of how you look at things. Instead of reacting, you know, instead of being reactive, it's almost taking that step back to Look at it with empathy and look at it with compassion and to understand it better. And I find that you know, just parenting actually a neurodiverse child, that I've had to do that a lot. You have to give up. I describe it as I've had to rip up my parenting handbook, which I thought was so useful but doesn't actually apply throughout the window, and, exactly as you said, get underneath what, what's causing this, and have empathy and compassion and once you start to do that, the magic happens. You know, similarly, as it sounds in your situation there, with with teaching or with, you know, having those conversations with children.

16:54

Now, from that journey and that starting point, you created this and I've got a vision of like a room with like 113 tips all stuck around it. But we can't go into all 113 tips. But I thought it would be super helpful to look at really the tips that will resonate with parents and with Sencos and with that relationship, and so I'm going to ask you just to highlight some of those so that for the Sencos listening out there and the parents listening out there. It can be like some words of wisdom, I guess your top tips for them.

Ginny BootmanHost17:28

Oh my goodness. Words of wisdom.

Dr Olivia KesselHost17:29

Yeah, words of wisdom Come on.

Ginny BootmanHost17:33

So I often talk about the spider's web of trust and it's an analogy which people go oh yeah, ginny, I really really get that. So as a Senco, I feel that we are the spider and we have to spin. Using our spinnerettes I've learned that language. We have to spin the first thread to make a connection with the parent, and we can. We have to consciously do that, and that might be talking about the Lego model the child's made, the fact that they've done three jumps up and down on the Pogo stick in the playground, the photograph that you've taken, that you've given to the parent to say he did go on the Pogo stick. You know we were talking about how we was finding that difficult. So those connections can be small connections, but I talk about how the small things make the biggest difference. And in the book, my top tip, number six, is how to build relationships with parents, and it begins with want to know the secret of building great working relationships with parents Time. We're all busy, but we need to find those nuggets of time to connect with parents, because when we make that time for parents we all save time in the future. So I think that is one of them, the fact that we need to consciously find time and actually, when that parent says, have you got a minute, let's just pause and go. How brave has that parent had to be to ask us for our time at this moment? There is a reason behind it and, if we can, we say yes, we will see that parent at that time. And that is so important because we will never get that moment back. And so many times, olivia, a parent has asked me have you got a minute? And I've had to. Not really am about to do the most, the most involved science lesson of the whole year, and it's like the worst time ever. Yes, that's fine, and the nugget they have given to me has surpassed. If they hadn't been given that chance, they would never have told me that, that golden nugget of information. So I think building relationships is really important.

20:07

Top tip number seven parents are our greatest ally. Parents are our greatest ally. They are the expert about their children. Flatten that hierarchy and say what do you think? In my experience, even the other day, I said to a parent tell me what you would like me to do. And we have this. We think parents are going to ask for the world and they don't. They want their child to be cared for and they want them to be valued and they, parents, do not ask for as much as we think they're going to ask.

20:48

Another one top tip number eight spiking emails from parents. We all have those times when we can send an email out of sheer frustration, and it is frustration frustration not at the Senko, but at the system, and it's about as a Senko going okay, this parent is having a really difficult time and they have sent that email off. Just pause If you need to speak to someone about it, speak to one member of staff, your venting partner and then ring the parent. Have that human connection. I have got this unease about emails going backwards and forwards between parents and school because we lose the humaneness. We have to be brave, I think both sides don't we? For a parent to ring school or for school to ring a parent is sometimes really hard, but getting that human connection is really really important and I just think it is that Go on. Sorry.

Dr Olivia KesselHost21:58

No, no, no, no. It's interesting, isn't it? Because, you know, oftentimes, you know, I talk to parents and they feel that the school is saying that you know that their child's you know, behavior is due to them being not great parents or being a single parent or being, you know, there's a lot of, there's a blame game and unfortunately that's perpetuated by. I just talked to a mom the other day and her daughter's four years old I think she has autism and the mother's being, before she can actually get on the list to have the proper testing done, she's gone to a, being sent to school.

22:33

Basically, you know, and looking at, what are you doing wrong as a parent? So there's, there's such a complexity in that kind of conversation and I think you know parents are already on the back foot when they are contacting the, the senko and they're expecting, you know, based on experience, that you know I'm not gonna be trusted and, honestly, your point, parents have those golden nuggets and they really should trust their guts because they actually, I would say, 99.9% of the time, they do know what's going on. You know, I mean, and they, you know. So it almost gives that extra, as you were saying, that spinner at spinning that web that the senko has to make sure it's super strong, because that parent is coming from Such a not great place.

Ginny BootmanHost23:21

And I often find, when we have children who come to us mid school career, the parents are in a place of defense and they're in a place of anger. And as Senko's, we just have to acknowledge they are not angry at us. They are challenging us because they cannot allow what has happened previously to happen again. So that first meeting the parent may be very emotional, and I talk about this idea of logos, ethos and pathos, which is really really helpful in my mind. So If a parent is very emotional, it's then. Then I have to ensure that I am Acknowledging their emotion and allowing them to speak out about their previous experiences, because that is quite cathartic.

24:24

And a parent said to me not long ago when her child was coming to one of my schools Do you know what, mrs bootman, I like you because you listen and I was like, oh my goodness, all I've all I've done is sat and listened. Has no one listened to her before? And I found that I can't. I found that Quite shocking, really. So we have parents who come emotionally and I liken it to a balloon that's inflated and everything that needs to be said is in that balloon, and then I allow all of that to come out and then, and then there is a physical. You know they go and I've let all that out.

25:11

And now you know and you're not judging me I think that's a lot of it then I also get parents who come in very logically, and so they come in with paperwork, so they come in with folders and, and as an individual I have to say I can find that quite threatening, that you know now I know, I know, yeah, yeah, you know, they cut the coming with the, with the folder.

25:38

And I'm like, oh my goodness. But I've now learned Consciously the spinner of connection this one is would you like, shall we look at the folder now? Interestingly, 50% of the time they don't want me to look at the folder. And now I've now realized that I'm now holding my book in front of me, but you can't. That's their armor. They are bringing that in as their armor, I think. For if she doesn't believe me, I've got the evidence. So this is fascinating to any Senko. If, if an individual comes in with a paid, with paperwork or a folder, it is highly likely it will be their armor. And If we do look at the paperwork, actually it's because they the time they are spending with us is so precious, they don't want anything to be forgotten, and that's absolutely as it should be. And then the other one that I often get is that people quest. I can literally have a barrage of how long have you been a Senko? What qualifications have you got, how many he, he p's if you got through dadadadada, and it is literally so.

26:54

Quite a few years ago a parent came to me and said have you done any he p's? And at that point I haven't. I said I have not done any he p's. I have. Now can I just tell you I had many. But I said I haven't, but I will look into it, we will do this together. And she was like, oh, my goodness, that is so refreshing. And I was like, how can that be refreshing? I'm telling you, I haven't done something. She said at the previous school they, they, they said they Promise so much and delivered so little. She said but you're telling me what you can and can't do. I said let's get a time scale to this, let's put meetings in. And we went through it Together and afterwards the the individual went to, went to a special school and parents really, really happy. And I saw her in the supermarket a few years later and she what I liked about you, mrs Boothman, was it didn't Okay, so and and and that that is what, that is what she liked.

Dr Olivia KesselHost28:05

So which I think everyone likes. You know I mean a straight, honest answer, and you know a collaborative approach is and being able to read and to understand, like you said about the empathy. You know what the parent is coming with to your door and you know it's also important for parents to understand what the Senko has in terms of their, their load and you know all of the pressures on them as well. So it's kind of it's a two way street in that understanding and that Empathy for each other. You know, but it's so important, otherwise it's so much gets lost.

Ginny BootmanHost28:48

And I think, when we're talking about having the, the empathy between the parent and the Senko, when I say to parents, when should we have this meeting?

28:58

I can see you next week. If I triage and think actually we can have this meeting in a week, parents are really understanding of that and I think, as Senko's, we think we need to have the meeting tomorrow. Well, it obviously depends on the context of the meeting, but actually parents are really really busy as well and like I've got a meeting next week and the parents working and I was like do you want the pet, do you want the meeting at the beginning of the day or do you want the meeting at the end of the day? What would suit you? And we've arranged that I also have because we're living in a hybrid world since covid. I also say to parents do you want a meeting in person or would it suit you better to have a virtual meeting? And then, having those options, they go oh, oh, jenny, jenny, you know, can I have a virtual meeting? And I say absolutely. Let me just go on to something that I think is really important. That does get forgotten and was forgotten by me for a long time.

30:01

When we're having meetings with parents. We need to ask them how they want to be addressed, because inadvertently and this came across and on twitter and it came across really loudly a few years ago the anger that parents can feel when they are referred to as Mom bill is mom, bill is dad. They said we are individuals in our own right. Please ask us how we want to be addressed. So at the beginning of meetings I say I'm jenny and the same kind, that's my choice. I think as well, because I'm not class based as well, and that is my choice. How would you like to be addressed in the meeting? And it's lovely, because sometimes I get grandma, because grandma wants to be grandma with within our setting, and so I say, okay, grandma, because she's given me permission. And then sometimes you know, and then then once again, we're flattening the hierarchy again, because everyone is being addressed in the way that they want to be addressed, and so we.

Dr Olivia KesselHost31:12

The meeting becomes a dialogue, which, which is so important- Absolutely, and it's a being on equal footing with each other, in a way that you both, you know you're contracting how you're gonna go forward in that meeting and in that relationship, which is fantastic In terms of, in your opinion, you know there's lots of challenges facing the education system. You know, we read about on the news, it has been a hot topic, but what do you think is key in terms of, you know, providing care and making education accessible for kids with additional needs, because the numbers are growing. It's not, it's no longer a minority. That you know we, you know it is growing. So, with all of your experience, what, what do you think needs to change?

Ginny BootmanHost31:59

I think we've had the Green Paper come through and there are some glimmers there in the fact that they are saying that by 2025 they are hoping to have an electronic EHCP format that will go across all schools, across all local education authorities, and I think when that happens, that will be really helpful because in my experience well, I work across three local education authorities who all have different ways of applying for an educational health care plan and there are consistencies, but there are things that are different. So that is very difficult and also, if we have children moving local education authorities, that also is very, very difficult and it's difficult for the parents because they have to navigate another system and they have to get the educational health care paperwork into the other local education authorities system. So I think that when it happens will be good. I think that there needs to be more consistency of these systems, because then that will also make free up time for Sencos because when systems are, consistent then yeah, yeah, I mean for everybody.

33:28

So the system itself is so confusing for everybody that it's the time that everybody takes the meetings that I have with parents which is fine, us unpicking together. I also think funding is hugely inconsistent. I don't think we've got a time scale for it, but they are looking at banding and funding to make that consistent, but it's the time that everything takes to get that funding. You know, if you have a child who lives in one local education authority and goes to a school in another local education authority, the dialogue that has to happen between the local education authorities, that doesn't happen without the Senco being in the middle of it all.

34:24

So these systems are, they have quite a lot of faults and I think, once we get that sorted, I also think there are not enough places in special schools so that means that we have got yeah, yeah, and there are and I have heard from other colleagues that they have had a child in their care where it has been agreed by everybody that the child should be in a specialist setting and there are no places, so that that and just to get to that agreement is heartbreaking.

Dr Olivia KesselHost35:01

To get to that agreement is such a long journey, years.

35:05

It took me years to get my daughter into specialist setting, which the child is then floundering more and more, and the concept of we don't want to segregate or separate children, but in the reality they are being segregated within their own classroom where they are not coping.

35:22

You know what I mean. So I totally agree with you and I think there is a huge need for more schools, specialist schools, because I have seen my daughter go from someone who is really struggling to someone who is now flourishing because she is in the right environment. So being in a mainstream is not always the right solution for a child with special education needs, you know, and that I think there was a paper written that had advocated this and the individual who wrote that has actually rescinded that. But it is that kind of hangover effect that everyone should be taught in the same classroom that it is interesting that you have even said this yourself, because I completely agree with that. It is not actually always the case. We would all like our kids too, but actually what is best for them might not be being in that large environment or in that mainstream environment.

Ginny BootmanHost36:15

And it is all about sharing everything with the parents. So we often have visits to specialist settings, because until you visit one of these amazing schools, we have spoken about magic. These schools are amazing and I have visited many, many and they are amazing places and when parents and I go and visit, any preconceived ideas they have just wash away and they go oh, ginny, this school is amazing because of everything it can offer as on a just on a daily, hour by hour, minute by minute basis, and I think there are people do not realise how amazing these schools are until they visit them. And then to have that taken away when you are taught, when you have all agreed that this is the absolute right journey and the right route for your child, breaks my heart.

Dr Olivia KesselHost37:33

Yeah, it breaks my heart too, which is part of the reason that I started this podcast actually, is because I, you know it needs to be put out there. More funding needs to go towards it, more of these schools need to be built and it needs to be a priority within the education system. So, yeah, I completely agree with you and it is just a matter of how do we get there, you know. And then also, there is a lot that can be done within the classroom and there is a lot that you know, like the relationships that we have been talking about today. There is a lot that can be done within the classrooms that maybe is not being done because Senkos are overworked, parents are frustrated and there is a breakdown of communication. And it is so important to bring that together because you have to deal with the situation you are in right now and it is a long road. If the specialist school is the one for you, it is a long road to get there. So you have to deal with it here and now, and I think that is you know.

38:29

Your book definitely is a great read for parents and for Senkos, because it kind of brings that all together. What can we do right now? What can we do with what we have at our fingertips? So I know I keep asking you for word. Oh sorry, go ahead.

Ginny BootmanHost38:46

I was going to say, we only know what we know and I constantly learn. I am constantly on a journey of finding outside agents to work with the children in my care, of finding different people who can come in and support us within my schools and there are amazing, amazing people out there who will come in, but there is no for each LEA. There is no list that I have been made aware of that says if this child is showing these characteristics, then consider going down this route. So much of it is about finding out when we need to find out, and I just think we need to sort that out as well.

39:37

You know, a colleague of mine and I are putting together a matrix.

Dr Olivia KesselHost39:48

Because also, camhs is broken right. So to get a diagnosis, I mean, like the mum I was talking about earlier, she's had to go to two months of parental school because she's the first one that's obviously to blame and that's what it feels like blame for her child's potential autism diagnosis, even though having autism is a wonder. It is who you are. It's just like me having brown hair it is who you are. But no, she has to go through the two months of that and then she'll get on a waiting list for the next two to three, four years, however long it takes. So you can't really wait until you get that diagnosis. As you say, you have to look at is this child coping in the environment? What things can be put in place? Are they working? Are they not working? If they're not working, what's the next step? And you know it's a progression and if that's road mapped out, I think it would make it a lot easier. So yay for you for taking that on, ginny, to map that out, I think it's needed before diagnosis.

Ginny BootmanHost40:48

And actually children present themselves in the way they present themselves and we need to ensure that a child feels happy, safe and valued and to make sure that the environment reflects how that child is presenting in that classroom. So, diagnosis or no diagnosis, I was at a conference the other day and this was brought up you know about. Actually, it's about the here and now of the children in our care.

Dr Olivia KesselHost41:18

Now, as we wrap up this podcast, it's been super, super, super interesting and I always ask my guests to give me three top takeaway tips that parents can take home after listening to this podcast. Could you share with us your three top tips?

Ginny BootmanHost41:34

Oh right, Okay, I'll try. What always comes across is communication. You know that we need to communicate from home to school and school to home, and everyone's busy, Everyone is busy. So if you want to have that meeting with the Senko or the class teacher, try to find a time when you can sit down with them and have that conversation, because then it is an allocated time for everybody. So I think that is really important, that we and we go in. The next one is we go in to listen, to understand as a two way communication home and school, school and home.

42:24

I think it and if a Senko or a class teacher seems abrupt, maybe they've had a really bad day, Give them the benefit of the doubt, because I think everyone is so busy and the world is such a hectic place. But I just find, by having a meeting I always say with a cup of tea, but that's just me, because I just think it's lovely to have a cup of tea. You know, try to find that time and try to empathize with the Senko as well and as much as we can. If we can all flatten the hierarchy so that we are all well, we're all there for the child and I just think to all be there on that same level the child benefits and it and it and it's all about. It's all about the child.

Dr Olivia KesselHost43:21

Yeah, and those those two really, you know, weave together in terms of, you know, creating that relationship that benefits the child and their educational journey. So I think those are great tips. Thank you so much, ginny. It's been a pleasure having you on the show and I will have your, your book, in our resources section and also on the website so everyone can get a copy, and I would recommend it being read, not just by Senko's but by parents as well, because it's got lots of helpful tips. So, thank you, thank you so much. Thank you for listening. Send parenting tribe. Please be kind and rate review us in your podcast platform, which will help us reach more listeners. You can also visit our website, wwwsendparentingcom, episode 36, to get access to a discount code for Ginny's book, being a Senko, which I'd highly recommend. Wishing you and your family a good week ahead, preparing for the start of school, thank you.