EP 35: Unlocking EFT Therapy: unveiling the potential in Neurodiverse Parenting and Child Development

Speaker Emma Wildgoose

Please excuse any errors as this transcript has been automatically generated

Dr Olivia KesselHost00:06

Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, i'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, i've uncovered a wealth of misinformation Alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, i will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. In this episode we will be joined by Emma Wildguss, nutritionist, coach and EFT therapist, who will help us to understand the power of EFT, which stands for emotional freedom technique, or otherwise known as tapping, and how its success in treating anxiety and post-traumatic stress can be applied to our neurodiverse children and also to us parents.

01:12

So welcome, emma. It is such a pleasure to have you on the Send Parenting Podcast today. I am just so excited or should I really say intrigued to learn more about EFT, which is emotional freedom technique for those listening, which I didn't know about either, but it's also known as tapping and it's also known as psychological acupuncture, which I think for me kind of clarified it a bit more But how it can support neurodiverse kids and their parents to manage their emotions, to manage their emotional competency. I'm absolutely fascinated to unpick this topic, so thank you for coming on the show today.

Emma WildgooseGuest01:49

Thank you very much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to be here, excellent.

Dr Olivia KesselHost01:54

So I guess the first thing that's on everyone's mind right now and was on mine when I heard about it what is tapping or EFT?

Emma WildgooseGuest02:02

So it is part of what I now called somatic therapies. It's like a new wave of therapies that are coming out It's actually been around since the 1990s, when I say new which are mind-body therapies. So really it's using the body and the mind to help with mental, emotional and physical healing. And what it is, i think, depends on your frame of reference, i suppose really. So there is a strong Eastern medicine sort of route to this and now a strong Western medicine sort of route, if you like. So the Eastern medicine belief is that we're tapping on acupressure points which are the end of meridians. So these meridians run through the body, they carry energy and we tap on them to sort of unknot the line, so where sort of emotions get stuck. That's the Eastern medicine route.

02:59

As a sort of biologist and a scientist myself, i tend to sort of veer a bit more towards the Western medicine route, which tapping takes into sort of account two different areas, i suppose. So there is a talking part to it and then there is a tapping part to it. The talking part is it's about defining an emotion. So what is the emotion first? So acknowledging that emotion, accepting that emotion, describing that emotion within the body, so that, i suppose, is part of emotional competence or the first parts of sort of emotional regulation. The tapping part is then using acupressure points to tap on the body which deactivates the stress response. The magic comes in when those two things come together, which is sort of bringing up the emotion, i suppose, which is housed in sort of the the olympic system of the brain, if you like, bringing the tapping into it which deactivates the stress response, which is the same part of the brain, and then what you get is the emotion is almost like the intensity is taken out of that emotion, if that makes sense.

04:18

So, you then reduce the intensity of the emotion, which starts to change your thoughts, your behavior, sort of everything, i suppose really So difficult to explain, but flick on there.

Dr Olivia KesselHost04:31

Well done, though, and that's really nice how you tied the Eastern and Western medicine five to it.

Emma WildgooseGuest04:34

Yeah, it's two different schools of thought.

Dr Olivia KesselHost04:36

Yeah, yeah, it's super clear to me. And then also by taking that out, i imagine that it's easier to cope with the emotion because you're not in that fight or flight response, it's just the emotion. So that's.

Emma WildgooseGuest04:49

I think that's a massive part of it as well. So when we are in that fight or flight response, obviously it changes the body hugely physically, but we're also in tunnel vision. So when we tap and we sort of go into that parasympathetic state, we're sort of we start to see a bit more like this rather than just in this sort of tunnel vision state. So yeah, you're absolutely right.

Dr Olivia KesselHost05:11

Yeah, and it enables you to get out of that. Yeah, amazing, yeah. So how do you work with clients, and I know that you work with neurodiverse children and their parents. Take us through how it works.

Emma WildgooseGuest05:27

So it's quite an interesting protocol with the FT in that if you are going to work with a child, you must have tapped on the parent first, which initially I thought was a bit odd, until I realised that actually a lot of the issues, if you like, between a parent and a child are, you know, it's a two way relationship. So a lot of the emotions or issues that are held are with the parent, not just with the child, and sometimes I never get the actual child because most of the issues are with the parent. So it's quite interesting. Yes, i've often never got to some children because the parents realise actually most of the well, yeah, the issues are with them and not their child.

Dr Olivia KesselHost06:12

It's super interesting. I mean, i can equate it to, you know, dog training, where it's usually not the dog that needs the training. Well, it's exactly that, yeah.

Emma WildgooseGuest06:20

And actually it's also going back to the lovely guest you had on, Dr Marion, is it? Yeah, You have to put your own oxygen mask on first. It's kind of that thing. Unless you've got your own, you know self in line. Exactly, Then you know, do that before you move on to your child, I suppose.

Dr Olivia KesselHost06:42

Yeah, And also I mean, you know kids model after us. So if we're showing you know ourselves and emotional regulation, Yeah, So you start with the parent and is there barriers there? because you know, here you are, you're a mother or a father and you want to help your child? Yeah, You're not thinking about yourself. They come and see you and you say, well, first time I'm going to start with you. Yes, How does that go over?

Emma WildgooseGuest07:06

I suppose I do explain it fully, and actually I wouldn't ever suggest that I ever saw a child without seeing the parents. I suppose that's very telling. So if I ever have a parent which I haven't as yet that says actually no thanks, then I'm sorry, you know I can't. I can't work with your child, so so, yeah, i don't. I often think they go into it thinking which I also said to you before, before we got on the podcast. I went into EFT thinking I had no baggage. Lo and behold, i did.

07:37

So I think a lot of parents actually do come into it thinking, no, this is nothing to do with me, this is all with my child. But as soon as you start sort of unraveling things, i think people become very aware that actually a lot of the beliefs and emotions that they hold are affecting the relationship with their child. It's also that whole thing about, you know, emotional dysregulation meets emotional dysregulation, and that's where the conflict lies. So if you can get yourself into a better emotionally regulated stay, you are in a better place to be that good, you know, solid parent to that child. So it makes sense. Really it makes complete sense.

Dr Olivia KesselHost08:14

It does make complete sense And you know it's. It's also wonderful that in helping your child you've helped yourself, because Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally Yeah. So so you, you, you, you do kind of like a counseling or coaching session with them, or how do you pull up the emotions that you're going to use and then tap with Yeah it's a good question.

Emma WildgooseGuest08:35

So my background is also coaching as well. So as far as I'm concerned, in my particular sessions because obviously everyone's run some slightly differently is for me it's really important to bear witness to that person's story. Now that can be anything, but you know, let's say I was dealing with a parent with a neurodiverse child, then I want to hear their story. I want to hear what they, their beliefs, their feelings, their everything. Once we've got the story and that is just your story underneath that are all the emotions that you feel. So then we would start to start to look at those emotions and start to tap with some of those emotions and see where that takes us.

09:18

Because the other thing about tapping, like you said, in terms of deactivating that stress response, you might start with an emotion that you define as anger, let's say, and you feel it in your chest and it you know it has a color or whatever it might be. We might tap on that And then, once the the intensity of the anger comes out of the situation, you realize actually it's not anger, there's another emotion behind that, the anger is masking that emotion. You maybe feel great sadness And then we move on to sadness And so you sort of peel back the layers of an onion to see what's really there.

Dr Olivia KesselHost09:56

Super interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. and so you, and initially you do the tapping and then the person learns to tap themselves when they're feeling those emotions.

Emma WildgooseGuest10:08

Yes. So I again, I think that's why it's a fantastic tool. I do think, absolutely It's great to work with a practitioner, but of course it it's not rocket science. I can I can go through the tapping points now and what it gives you is a tool that you can then take home. And Because the other lovely thing is that, yes, it's very lovely for me to work with your child, but it's super lovely for you to work with your child that that's yeah, that's what I love to see that you take this tool home and you use it with your child. So, yeah, it's portable as well. Yeah, it's all going anyway, so you can take it with you wherever you go.

10:48

And I have a gorgeous example of a lovely little girl I work with with ADHD and and It was a fantastic tool for her and she started to take it into school and she started to tell her teachers about it and Then, if she was upset or anything at school, her teachers would know about it. They would do tapping with her and then, even just a couple of weeks ago, they said, oh, we've got a little girl in year two who's super anxious. Would you teach her tapping? So it's a gorgeous Wow to really empower children. I suppose they've always got it. It's never going anywhere, they've got something to hand at all times and they can share it with others, which is really lovely.

Dr Olivia KesselHost11:31

Yeah, and it Validates how they're feeling and get Not to be afraid of that feeling but have an actual real Power to navigate that feeling totally, and I think that's the talking part which is so lovely.

Emma WildgooseGuest11:47

So actually acknowledging that feeling, giving it a name, understanding where you feel it in the body, and again, working with children They are super imaginative with this stuff So you'll get kind of like I feel Angry and this big red ball of wool in my tummy and it's got horns And I mean it's just like a huge monster, this thing, and so then to be able to have a tool of how to deal with that It's, and then it will change. You know, suddenly you're chasing the monster on the body. And then I had one girl. It was lovely where it ended up in the end of her little little finger. That's where it was. It reduced and it was there and the end of the session She went. I've just blown it away. This is lovely, really lovely, absolutely amazing.

Dr Olivia KesselHost12:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really good, very good, and it's it's. It's not just Good for the child from a you know feeling better thing, it actually has an impact on their you know Kind of physiological markers that you've told me about, so you can actually quantify, can you? can you describe a little bit about how how it actually affects the body from a physiological perspective?

Emma WildgooseGuest12:58

I mean, they've done brain scans which actually, you know, show that it changes brain, brain waves. One of the biggest things that it does is drop cortisol. So when we look at what stress is doing to the body, you know, we know now that chronic stress is linked to all sorts of physical, mental health issues. I suppose it drops cortisol by something like 37 percent.

13:23

I mean it's huge in terms of you know Markers on that front. It boosts immune markers by something like 112 percent. You know it has real physical Benefits, i suppose, to the body, boost happiness, that reduces depression, so yeah. So they've really managed now to get some real sort of biological markers That they've managed to measure against EFT, which is amazing. So yeah, it really is good for the, for the body and the mind.

Dr Olivia KesselHost13:56

Yeah, And it's good to have that validation that it's actually Yeah, doing that because the power of the placebo as well is huge, yeah, and I'm a big believer of that as well.

Emma WildgooseGuest14:07

You know, even. I mean, they have got fantastic scientific evidence now And actually it was first the first biggest studies were done on PTSD sufferers, so that's when they really got there for those who don't know what PTSD is.

Dr Olivia KesselHost14:19

It's post-traumatic stress trauma That can happen after wars, it can happen after abuse, it can happen after Huge life events. There's a lot of things that can cause it. So, yeah, sorry, just to explain that.

Emma WildgooseGuest14:32

Yeah, no, um, absolutely right, and and yeah, so that was the biggest body of evidence They first collected, from war veterans, i think. And that's where when it was pitched, i think, against CBT, so cognitive behavioral therapy it came out much stronger as a therapy. So, yeah, i, i think you know, my real feeling is that it will gain momentum as more and more scientific evidence comes to the fore on it.

Dr Olivia KesselHost14:58

Yeah, I mean Thinking like broad skies in my mind. I mean why wouldn't you do that in schools? You know, oh god. I mean as part of your your start to the day or, you know, in the middle of the day.

Emma WildgooseGuest15:10

Absolutely you know absolutely, and when I was doing my training course, actually, you know, and if you think, particularly post-covid so much anxiety in schools and there was a lovely lady that I trained with who I forget the role she had within the school, but she was almost like the Oh I don't know the sort of mental health supporter or something in the school and she says she used to Obviously have children in and talk to them, but she said the volumes of children coming in are now so huge and her time is so small That the only thing that she can do which is instant and effective is talk with them all. So she would talk with them all all day long. Um, but you're absolutely right. I just think it's a I mean, amazing tool for schools to have and to even do, you know, like you say at the start of the day, or run sessions on it, or Even just the emotional competency part of it, never mind the tapping is, yeah, a brilliant, brilliant kids, and actually so much of what you have to deal with with adults is What are termed core issues.

16:16

So these are issues that go right back to childhood. So I always think, well, god, if we start to enjoy it, we wouldn't have all these issues that we've now got age 40, 50, whatever it is. So if we were dealing with them as and when they happened rather than let them manifest into huge, great, big problems, then, yeah, you're right.

Dr Olivia KesselHost16:36

Yeah, we could nip it in the bud, so to speak. Yes, nip it in the bud.

Emma WildgooseGuest16:38

Exactly, that's exactly it.

Dr Olivia KesselHost16:41

And and you've shared with me how you know, if we look at it, you know, specifically with like a neurodiversity lens.

Emma WildgooseGuest16:48

How does?

Dr Olivia KesselHost16:48

it really help. You know, let's say that you know we've unpacked all the parent stuff and we, you know the and and you know, often, like myself, the parents are neurodiverse too. So you know, and and they haven't had that support that luckily, a lot of our children, although it's still lacking, are getting. But But how does it help neurodiverse children? Because I know you had some specific examples of how you know it can really Breakthrough or help with some of the challenges that they have.

Emma WildgooseGuest17:15

Yeah. so I mean just to be clear, i'm not a neurodiverse expert, but I have dealt with neurodiverse children And I think there are. I mean, i'd love there to be some scientific evidence here and I'd love someone to run and study on this, but to me it really seems that neurodiverse children have, shall we say, a quite a sensitive or vulnerable central nervous system. So it's quite on age.

17:43

It feels like it's looking for threat At every corner. And just to create that safety within their body, the tapping does to sort of deactivate that stress response seems to be huge for them. So when I tap with children it's incredibly physical. You know, they can be sat there quite one inch to start with and then they are literally yawning. The relaxation that comes across their body is it's phenomenal. It really is. In fact, sometimes when I work with children they might have to go off to a sports club after we have to do some energy something before they go, because it's so relaxed. We just sort of G them up a bit again, but it just seems to create this sort of immense calm.

18:30

And then I think on top of that and again I think this is probably my understanding is that neurodiverse children are living in a world that isn't necessarily designed for them. So the emotions then, particularly of things like frustration, things like that, can be much, much bigger. So working with those types of emotions for them, just to sort of bring them down slightly, i think is super helpful for them. But I think on top of that we do live in a world now, i think, where we are much better at allowing children's emotions, but to have a practitioner sit in front of and I use exactly the child's words. So for a child, I think, to be heard entirely by an adult, for an adult to listen to every single feeling they have, allow them to describe all those feelings and then do something to help them with those feelings, i think is really quite powerful. I didn't realise just the being heard part for a lot of these children I think is really huge actually.

19:43

Because, those emotions are big things like frustration or sadness or anger. they're big And we do, i think, as parents try to hear that, but sometimes that's quite hard. So I think for a separate adult to hear that and validate it is quite powerful.

Dr Olivia KesselHost20:04

And sometimes it's hard as a parent when you want to fix things, You want to make it better, you want to get that band-aid out.

Emma WildgooseGuest20:10

you want to get the ice out and sometimes they just need to be heard.

Dr Olivia KesselHost20:17

And we almost don't want to hear it, it's so hard. It's not nothing you don't want to, but you want to fix it.

Emma WildgooseGuest20:23

But that's a prime example of tapping with the parent first, because you're absolutely right, sometimes you've got neurodiverse parent, neurodiverse child and, as the parent, what we're often witnessing in the child are those really painful emotions that we have had ourselves, and so working with the parent first to deal with those painful emotions is quite important, i think, because then we're more comfortable to sit with the reflection of the child's emotions rather than the massively triggering us, because it takes us back to that place where we, where it wasn't accepted when we were younger. You know, if you couldn't read as a dyslexic at school years ago, you were made to read Macbeth every single day. I certainly was, and so it then brings back that entire trauma.

21:20

Yes, for us. So I think again really important to work with the adult first and then the child again.

Dr Olivia KesselHost21:28

Yeah, that's that, and, as you say, then it becomes a bonding thing as well, where you can go home, yeah, and work together And, you know, like your lovely example, that little girl who then went on and, like you know, has spread it around the world and then tells it.

Emma WildgooseGuest21:41

Tells the world exactly and how brilliant, aged, whatever, to have that skill and that tool.

Dr Olivia KesselHost21:47

And kids won't do that unless it's had an impact on them. Do you know what I mean?

Emma WildgooseGuest21:50

No, no, true, Absolutely true, yeah, yeah, It's brilliant. It's brilliant to watch.

Dr Olivia KesselHost21:55

It is And you know it's when I think of, like you know, when I think of neurodiversities and I think about you know that the emotional dysregulation, the need to do things you know like a stimming, which is when you do like a repetitive behavior to kind of calm yourself down, that and some of those behaviors are sometimes not healthy behaviors, like it could be banging your head against the desk at school And you know you're harming yourself. So if you could redirect that into a tapping kind of atmosphere, it would work really well. Yes, definitely.

Emma WildgooseGuest22:30

Yeah, yeah And I think, yeah, i think there are. You know, i would imagine, if it was, you know there was some studies done. You know a whole host of benefits, particularly for neurodiversed children. It's just is quite a niche. Tapping is quite niche And I suppose we haven't had the ability to do those studies yet, But there's definitely been some done. But I would like to see more.

Dr Olivia KesselHost22:52

you know absolutely And I mean I've read some of the studies on anxiety and how much it can help with anxiety, and anxiety is a huge part of neurodiversity.

Emma WildgooseGuest23:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dr Olivia KesselHost23:01

Doesn't you know, matter where the cause comes from and be able to release that?

Emma WildgooseGuest23:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, Yeah, yeah, yeah. It definitely helps from that perspective. So, looking at yeah, anxiety over worrying is another one comes up all the time all these types of things, it can really help with, and then you look at something that's actually cost effective, that you can do.

Dr Olivia KesselHost23:23

So can you do it like as a group? Could you do it like you know, like you were talking about that well being officer at school? Yeah, so you can do it as a group as well.

Emma WildgooseGuest23:30

Yeah, Yeah, so you can do group tapping. You can also, which it's an incredibly robust procedure. You don't have to get it perfectly right, you can also. So if I was running an online session, i I tap on people if they're here in my space, but if I was running an online session with you now, you would tap on yourself And I would tap with you and I get what's called borrowing benefits. So, although we're dealing with you, i get the benefit because I've still I've still relaxed my system. So whatever stress or tension was going on, i've reduced it. So it's yeah, it's a really robust and user friendly tool, i would say, and cost effective.

Dr Olivia KesselHost24:15

I would say, is very cost effective. It's a cost you anything. Yeah, i think that you know, it's something that you know. Yeah, we will have to figure out a way to do more research into this because it is fascinating And yeah.

Emma WildgooseGuest24:31

And then try and get it into schools. That would. That would be my other thing. I think there's a lot of I have spoken to again when I was training. There was a head teacher that I trained with and there is so much safety and regulation, quite rightly, around children in terms of someone going in and doing that, but you could train the staff. That's the way that she felt that you could do it, that you could go in and maybe train the staff and then the staff you know use it with the children.

Dr Olivia KesselHost24:58

And then interesting in that scenario the parents not gonna be involved. But then there's still benefits the child can get right.

Emma WildgooseGuest25:04

Yes, and then they can go home and teach their parents potentially yes, yeah, yeah, i think so, yeah.

25:09

So obviously, within schools you would use it in a slightly different way, just to sort of Just to take standard emotions rather than going into, i suppose, what i would. What you're tending to deal with, i suppose, why Apparent would often come is because that relationship is quite strange as well, maybe no other issues there, and so that's why you're sort of unpacking things with the parents a little bit more. Where is in a school? That's the other thing with it. Again, eft can be used as very top level emotions which you would maybe use in the school. Like i just feel a bit sad today. I just feel But you can use it for serious sort of core issues as well that this is a real problem and where is it come from?

25:52

so it's almost got Different years and then you got everything in between so you got different levels. so i would see it in school is just like de stressing Exercise, where is, yes, if you're working with a practitioner, you tend to be working more core issue level yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Dr Olivia KesselHost26:10

And Yeah, it's a.

Emma WildgooseGuest26:14

It makes sense that that could be included in schools who are having such a huge problem with yeah, i mean anxiety and i mean mental well being, you know yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, and it's just something, i think, that you and even if you're not necessarily doing on a weekly basis or doing it a lot, it's a tool like any other tool, isn't it, that you can give to children and just say this is one way that you can Help deal with your emotions, you know it's interesting because, like my daughter school, they're big into the zones of regulation and my daughter quote every zone of regulation i'm red, i'm yellow, are you blue today, mommy?

Dr Olivia KesselHost26:53

i mean, she's like you're red, i'm like. No, no, kidding, i'm red. You know, completely lost my motivation. But then i've commented at the school to is that you know? then how do how do we move from these different?

27:08

Yeah, my daughter i said to her have they taught you? and she's like what she doesn't remember? or Yeah, you know it's. How did you know? so, yes, one is is is knowing that you got the emotion. Where do you go with that? so i think this is an incredible great Add on or wait at the next step. Okay, i know i'm in the red, or i'm going towards the red. What can i do? okay, i could.

27:31

I could tap on the yes, yeah when i, when i realize that and then take myself to where i can see it and Before it becomes exactly.

Emma WildgooseGuest27:41

yes, yes, and i think that is another really interesting part actually that when The only reason you use the words for tapping is so that you can tune into that motion, is that emotion is right there. You don't need to use any words, okay. So, for example, i use it with my daughter and i use it in two different ways. So i we do something called tap and talk at night. So that has been brilliant for her night, because she used to be a child that would go to bed and all the worries come out that, if you can tell me where to solve this, and this is gonna be worth its weight in gold for me, because, yes, Okay.

28:22

So i i used to put my daughter to bed and we've read all the cbt books, like the watering your tomato plants, and if we keep thinking about this worry, it's just going to grow and grow.

28:34

So we've tried to tackle it like that and then i got into the tapping and what i do that i mean that it is not rocket science at all. I allow her to talk, which often comes up with a lot of emotion, and she's lying there talking to me, i tap. So therefore, rather than the emotions growing and growing and growing, they're actually releasing. So, although the conversation can be quite difficult sometimes, the emotional charge has actually come out and she is one of those children that it just just makes. It puts her to sleep. So i use it there with her and i also think it's like anything else, that daily practice of it, like anything, means that as soon as i start tapping, her system is that okay, it's time to relax. I know where this goes. The other, the other area that i do use it is when she is in a big emotion and i used to try and talk her off the ledge, which lets face it.

Dr Olivia KesselHost29:51

You're right.

Emma WildgooseGuest29:53

I have never had the sketch set to talk her off the edge. What she's there, i don't know, i don't know. So now, rather than saying anything, i just tap on her and and i mean, i think again, don't quote me too much on this, but What i found quite interesting in the learning is that an emotion itself doesn't actually last for that long. It's then the story we tell ourselves about the emotion that last. so if we can bring the intensity of the emotion down, step away from the story, there is no she generally. I mean sometimes she can be out of that state within 20 seconds. I used to spend hours trying to talk it out. Why did nobody tell me about this? why? So yeah, i found it really interesting from that. That's where i use it with her. Those two, those two areas i am almost speechless.

Dr Olivia KesselHost30:51

And because? No? to solve two of those problems in you know, something is what sounds so simple as tapping and then also not, which i also think is very important. yeah yeah, yes yes, because i think there is an element of It's not about the talking, it's not about the higher, whatever cerebral, it's about coming back to yourself, focusing on yeah and bringing yourself back in your body.

Emma WildgooseGuest31:20

And that's exactly it, and I think culturally we have got too much into our heads. The reason we don't want to have an uncomfortable feeling is because it's uncomfortable in our body. So to use the body to reduce that level of discomfort to me speaks my language anyway, rather than what I was trying to do. And what I've previously said is use my head. Well, my head's generally all over the place, so I can't use it particularly well. I can use my body.

Dr Olivia KesselHost31:52

And I mean, the proof is in the pudding, you know, an emotional outburst being reduced to nothing in 20 seconds and being able to get the worries at night to go away and actually make them feel sleepy.

Emma WildgooseGuest32:03

Yes, well, exactly, and I think certainly the daily practice of it, when then a big emotion comes up, is very helpful. So I think, if there was a time and also I would say this is age dependent when you've started tapping, i don't have quite so much luck with my 16 year old son, i think probably the you know that ship has sailed, which is frustrating.

32:27

But I think the younger you can start with these things, where they understand it's a tool to help and then they are open to it. And I'm not suggesting also that it's right for every child. Of course every child has different needs, different things that help, But I think for certain children it can almost be life changing.

Dr Olivia KesselHost32:45

Yeah, and you know that's a very good point because you know I think it actually was Dr Marion again, who you know I asked her what you know, all these, all this parenting advice, how do you navigate it? But really it's what you're saying might resonate with parents, like it's resonated with me, so it's worthwhile exploring.

33:02

It's not a drug, It's not electric shock therapy. It's something that's quite simple and, you know, is not going to cause harm. So if it resonates and these are things you're trying to navigate it's worth it. You know it's worth the try, would be my opinion. You know, Absolutely. And like you say it might not work for both of your children because one might be too old or resistant.

33:23

So you find the tools to work, but that's the whole point of this podcast is kind of to introduce people to different things that maybe they haven't had. I'd heard about it, but not to this level, and I didn't actually even put the pieces together of how it could work with my child. So I think you know that's really fantastic. So thank you for coming and talking to us today. Now, at the end of the show, i like to ask are there three top takeaway tips that you can give to our listeners that they can put in their back pocket and take away with them after listening to this podcast?

Emma WildgooseGuest33:57

So I think it goes back to another podcast that you had that putting your own oxygen mask on first before you put it on your child is probably the number one, in a sense, that allowing your own emotions, understanding them, is number one, so that you can then help your child. I think, as a first step, well, taking the two areas of tapping, i suppose allowing your child to name an emotion, acknowledge it and accept it, that's one part of tapping. So you don't need to be doing this all correctly in them, you know, but allowing them to name it, acknowledge it and accept it is the first part of tapping. If they can draw it and describe it, which they generally can, even better, rather than trying to talk them away from that emotion. Oh, you've got that emotion.

34:57

What is it? Please tell me more about. It would be my other one. And then the other one, which is free and I can certainly quickly show you the tapping points, is tap and talk at night, particularly at night. You don't need to be doing it correctly. It is a robust process, but just to go round the tapping points which are on the top of your head, inside eye, outside, eye under the eye, under the nose, on the chin, on the collarbone and under the arm, so you don't have to do them all. Lily doesn't like this one, but she likes this one. So just going round whilst they're talking can sort of reduce the emotion rather than building it up, if you like.

Dr Olivia KesselHost35:40

That's great and you know what? I'm sure you have a lovely chart of this that I can include with the podcast that people can download and look so that they can see it, but you explained it really well and I'm going to try it this evening with my daughter. So, thank you. that is really, really, really helpful And it's empowering to have something that can connect, that isn't talking, which doesn't seem to work.

Emma WildgooseGuest36:07

Yes, yes, doesn't for me.

Dr Olivia KesselHost36:10

So thank you very much, emma, for coming on the show. Have a lovely day. Thank you for having me and to you my little.

36:18

Thank you for listening to Send Parenting Try. Since recording this episode, i've been using the tapping points of my daughter before she goes to sleep and while she tells me about her anxieties or worries. It's been really amazing. She's going to sleep much easier. If you would like to access the tapping points, please visit our website at wwwsendparentingcom, and if you go to this episode, you can download the free PDF Wishing you and your family a calm week ahead.