Transcript - Episode Three

Does your child need an Educational Health Care Plan (ECHP)? With Adam Field, Partner and Head of Education Law at Geldards Law.

Please excuse any errors as this transcript has been automatically generated

Dr Olivia Kessel:

In this episode, we will be speaking with Adam Friel, a partner and head of education law at Geldards Law Firm. He will share with us his unique journey being dyslexic, from being called a thicko, facing failure to ultimately becoming a solicitor, how he uses his unique experience to understand and support SEND Children reach their potential by helping them to navigate the SEND system. Adam will address the question of whether your child needs an Educational Heath Care Plan using his personal story and that of his journey with his own son to illustrate the challenges a parent has to realize their child needs an educational healthcare care plan.

Adam Friel:

Welcome, Adam. It is really great to have you on the Send Parenting Podcast. Thank you for your time today. You know, you have a real unique lens, I would say, when looking at educational law, because it's not just about the law, it's also your personal experience living as a neurodiverse individual with dyslexia and navigating the education system and work, and then also your son as well. Can you tell me a little bit about how your personal experience with special education needs and disabilities has really helped you in terms of your career as well?

Adam Friel:

Hello everyone. I understood that I was dyslexic around about seven years old. I was assessed quite quickly. I was lucky because in some respects my brother, my older brother was a bit of the Guinea pig in the family in terms of understanding dyslexia. So he'd already had a diagnosis to and at that stage he was actually , attending a dyslexic school called East Court at the time. So when I was showing a kind of familiar pattern to that, I was assessed quite quickly. I suppose what makes me a bit different from my brother is I had a condition called Glue Air as a child, severe enough to require a number of grommets being implanted. I think because of that, and it was picked up quite late, my hearing impacted a lot of my first bit of understanding of language and also, you know, how I kind of interacted with other people.

Adam Friel:

So all of that has an effect. All, it all kind of trickles down. And as a consequence of my hearing issues, I think. I come from a family of dyslexics, a long history of dyslexia in my family. But I think the reason why my dyslexia was more on the severe end was because I also had that additional issue of, of not being able to hear, if you can't hear things properly, and glue is like listening underwater if you're not hearing things quite right, obviously that impacts on your first stages of understanding and writing down language, I suppose. So for me, I was always aware that I was having issues. Originally it was because I couldn't hear things properly and that impacted on my behavior. So my first school, I was excluded, well suspended back, back in the day they called it for biting someone.

Adam Friel:

I can't even remember why. But when my son, I had a similar experience, a couple of years ago, he's got a diagnosis of autism, and with him, he pushed over someone because he couldn't communicate his frustration at them taking a toy. I'm assuming that it was something similar to that but anyway, it shows you quite how, if you don't have the understanding of a difficulty, how people can misunderstand that your ability to communicate is actually, and you have a behavioral response to that. That doesn't mean that you're a bad child, it just means that you are unable to communicate in the right way. So I was assessed around about seven. So by that stage, I had grommets in place and I had moved schools at that stage, and I was in a smaller environment, but I was way behind my peers in terms of my early literacy skills.

Adam Friel:

And lo and behold, I, I came out as dyslexic which for my parents, I don't think was a huge surprise because my, my brother was, had already gone through that process with me. I did end up eventually going to a specialist dyslexic school, but a bit later than my brother. I think my parents, because I've always been good at kind of, articulating, later on as my views and opinions. People just assumed that I was a bit behind and I'd catch up, but actually the severity of my dyslexia was just as severe actually as my brother. So yeah, that the journey I had at that stage, I had gone to a primary state primary school and was excluded for biting, then I moved away from that school to a small independent school, which I loved that environment. I was, I was in a smaller class.

Adam Friel:

I got a lot more one-to-one support, but even with that one-to-one support and dyslexia teaching was built on top of a normal curriculum. The severity of my difficulties meant that I wasn't generalizing what I was learning in my dyslexia classes across the curriculum and across the school. So at that stage, my parents made a decision to send me to a specialist dyslexic school and I did very well there. And the reason I did very well was all the classes were designed for dyslexic students. All the students in my class were functioning at a similar level to me in terms of their literacy and numeracy, and all the classes were differentiated at the point of teaching by specialist dyslexia teachers. So in a very short period of time, I was able to kind of catch up and make quite a lot of progress. I was therefore after four years able to transfer back into a more mainstream environment.

Adam Friel:

I went to a school called Brighton College which if there's any rugby fans out there is quite famous as a place that the England rugby team go and train now. Sadly when I was there, it didn't have that facility in the way it does now. But when I was at Bryant College, they had a really good dyslexic unit. So I did all of my kind of normal class curriculum and lessons with everyone else. But when it came to literacy and numeracy, we went to the Dyslexic Center at our school and we did the additional lessons there and basically did everything up until GCSE within a dyslexia environment. And I was really lucky. I had a teacher called Dr. Sison who I think recognized in me the ability that was there but it wasn't coming through and he was really able to engage me.

Adam Friel:

I did really, I should say, when I started at Bryant College, I was bottom of the class, bottom of the sets, everything, other than sport I loved rugby and did very well. I wasn't really coping very well, but he was a very good support at kind of bringing me through that and kind of helping me kind of unleash my potential. And because of that, I did pretty well at GCSEs, but even better at A Levels. I think with A levels, because you're only doing three subjects and they're usually subjects of your own enjoyment, you tend to find that dyslexic when they get to that stage do much better. Which allowed me to go on to university. And then I think the gulf between school and university was a bit of a shock to me because I think as a dyslexic learner, you tend to be a couple of years behind your peers, not just in your, your literacy skills and your numeracy skills, but also just in terms of your organization, and your ability, I suppose, to, to kind of access things that everyone else does.

Adam Friel:

So my first year, year of university was quite difficult, but I was very fortunate that my sister happens to be an educational psychologist, she was very supportive of me during that time, kind of helping me develop my study skills. And after a difficult first year, I, I went on to get a two one, in ancient history. I really enjoyed it. And then I went on to do the GDL, which is a course where you transfer for becoming a solicitor or a barrister if you're going down that route. And I have to say, I really struggled with the, GDL, because it's a bit like doing your GCSEs. You go from doing a couple of subjects through your A Levels to doing lots and lots of subjects, in terms of legal areas of practice and the way I work it was really hard to cope with.

Adam Friel:

But again, I was quite lucky that I was supported through that experience and was able to come out the other end and qualified as a solicitor. In the kind of grand scheme of things. And I, I think the kind of lesson I I've learned from that is you as a dyslexic person, it will always take you longer to do things, it will always be a harder graft. My education has always showed me that. But once you kind of, I suppose, recognize that and recognize that you need to build strategies around what you're doing, strategies that nobody else has, you usually can get to where you want to to be. And I always think I experienced failure at a very early age so I was very aware, you know, when I was six and seven that I wasn't being able to catch up with my peers.

Adam Friel:

I remember people calling me stupid in the classroom or when I was going over to my dyslexia classes being saying that's for the thickos. I think that was the kind of words that we used. Obviously quite distressing as a child, but actually I think, you know, learning about failure and actually learning how to overcome that and how you can build that into everything you are doing. So if saying, well, okay, well this isn't working, how do I address this? How do I build strategies so I'm not kind of behind everyone else has been, the biggest thing I think I've learned from my education has been such a core foundation to what I've done in terms of moving forward in my career

Dr Olivia Kessel:

Really and having that insight and you know, having walked in the shoes, so to speak of the kids, of the clients that you represent and help. I think that's a huge advantage.

Adam Friel:

Yeah, I suppose I've gone on a tangent going down a different route of what you asked me,

Dr Olivia Kessel:

No, no, no, that's, uh, I think it's incredibly helpful and it's, you know it sounds like you had a lot of support through your family, but even with your family support and having the older brother with the dyslexia, your parents still kind of didn't realize exactly how, what your needs were, you know, and, and how to navigate. What was the right educational path for you even with that experience? It so tricky for parents.

Adam Friel:

It's really difficult. And I should say as well that I'm fortunate that my, my father is a barrister and he worked in this area, so we always had that kind of dinner table discussion about who got who into education law. Because if for me and my brother, I don't think my father had ever heard of the equivalent of an EHCP, which was a statement back in the day and would've understood the tribunal process. He kind of understood that and got involved in it because he was trying to help my brother get into a specialist dyslexic school becasue he was doing really badly at school at that stage. With me, as I say, I think there was an underestimate, I was underestimated in terms of the level of my dyslexia because of the comparison was with my older brother.

Adam Friel:

But we presented very differently in terms of being dyslexic and as people. You know, I wouldn't have got to where I am today if it hadn't been for that environment and the support I had. So I think my father was very good at kind of understanding dyslexia and how you are supposed to support it, but my mother was also very good at kind of being there to, to nurture and support me and also saying things to me, and I've never forgotten this throughout my life, that you can be severely dyslexic and you can have all those difficulties. That's not really an excuse for not trying and not an excuse to just give up. So whilst I suppose people should make reasonable adjustments for you, that doesn't mean that you can just sit there and, and expect them. You've gotta still go out there and prove yourself.

Adam Friel:

And I think that's really important. Um, so yeah, I mean in, in terms of my work, because I was able to do well at school, um, despite my difficulties, um, I've always been interested in this area of, of law because the idea that I could help other people who have gone through a simmer experience to me or have different types of needs, but see them reach their potential is always something which really fascinated me all the way through my education. Obviously I was a well of the work that my father was doing and is why I was always quite keen. Um, uh, I should, I should be honest, my first attempt was to become a rugby player, so I wanted to become a professional rugby player, but unfortunately my spine wouldn't, wouldn't allow me to do that. So, um, after some bad injuries, um, I suppose law was always the backup career, but I'd always wanted to help other people who'd had a similar experience to me, kind of, um, do well in in their education and have good outcomes.

Adam Friel:

In terms of adult life I'm very aware that I'm very privileged in the kind of circumstances that I was educated in and with the family I had. But I've always sat there and thought afterwards, well I'm sure there's lots of people out there similar to me whose parents may not be aware of the level and extent of their needs, may not be aware of the right strategy to use or who to ask the right questions to. So helping people go through a similar kind of process as my parents, but ensuring that they've got the right support in place has always been, I suppose my vocation. That's always what I wanted to do.

Dr Olivia Kessel:

It's a powerful thing because it really is, it's a fight now, you know what I mean? There's a lack of funding. There's, you know, relatively broken system. It's diversified depending on what county you live in. So it's not easy for parents to actually navigate what is the best education system for my child and what do I need to put into place? And I know when I went through my personal journey with, does my daughter need an EHCP, I didn't even know what an educational healthcare plan was, if I'm honest. And you know, it was a, a journey to actually understand that and then to learn, how do you go about getting it ? In terms of people who are listening to this podcast what advice would you give them in terms of if they're looking to make sure that their children do meet their educational potential, what advice would you give them and what would that look like?

Adam Friel:

Okay, so I suppose it depends on where they've come in. So in some cases parents come to me and they say, I'm not sure if I my child needs an EHCP, do you have a view on this? And I often have a conversation with them. I think parents, the biggest advice I would give to parents over the years is go with your gut feeling. If you don't feel that something's not right, no matter what other people around you are saying, it's properly right. Your view is properly right. So when a lot of clients have come to me or potential clients have come to me and said to me, I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that the provision's not right. 99% of the time they're correct. It's very, very rare that I have a case where you know, I tell to a parent:, I'm sorry, but actually I think your child is getting all the right support or the the evidence from the table suggests that they're absolutely fine.

Adam Friel:

It's always the other way around. It's usually parents who have an inkling about these things once their children's needs have been looked at in a lot more detail that you realize the severity of the difficulty. And most people who come to me, it's not starting the journey at nursery or reception. Usually they've tried to put in strategies themselves, they've worked with their school or tried to work with their school to put into place things and it just hasn't worked. In some cases, it may be even earlier than that, it might be very obvious, due to the nature of the child's needs, that they're always going to need a high level of support in those cases, they usually get to an EHCP before I'm involved. It's, it's usually at that stage where we're having I suppose a discussion or argument with the local authority over what the provision should look like on the school being named in section I.

Adam Friel:

But in a lot of cases the children are in mainstream schools, it hasn't been working, they haven't been making progress. And at that stage, a parent is kind of wondering what the next stage should be. Often schools particularly mainstream schools are often informed by local authorities what their kind of internal policy or strategy is for determining whether someone needs an EHCP. Those policies and strategies usually bear no resemblance to the actual law or the code of practice. So a lot of, I think SENCO and head teachers often misinform parents and say, well, you know, according to the local authority, your child wouldn't be entitled to EHCP plan. And usually the training that they've received is just simply wrong or the internal policy is much higher than the legal code, I suppose for getting an EHCP plan.

Adam Friel:

And the same goes for the actual plan itself. Often the plans that we see don't comply with the law or the guidance, and it's obvious that they won't. But I suppose if you're a local authority, you have a small budget, you obviously want to ensure that you are only providing a certain amount of plans a year and you obviously want to ensure that you are saving as much money as possible. So you tend to find lots of people get turned down from needs assessments, which is the stage moving towards an EHCP plan. And often the EHCP plans which are produced, are inadequate. So a plan should fully outline a child's needs, should fully quantify all the provision they require, including speech and language therapy specialist teaching occupational therapy, and wording a wrap around the environment they should be educated in.

Adam Friel:

So if they're in a mainstream environment, they need, may need to have learning support assistance, but it might be due to the nature of the needs that they might require an actual specialist environment or a smaller environment where they're being taught throughout their school day by specialist teachers. All that wording should be included in section F of the plan, and it should be so specific that it leaves no room for doubt. And if you think about an EHCP plan working on a cascade basis, only if you identify all the child's needs in section B of the plan and all the provision, they're required, section F that then informs the school being named in section I. What we tend to find with EHCP plans is they're very vague about needs in section B, very woolly about what the provision is, which in turn means that, and the school names in section I is either inappropriate or even if it is appropriate that the level of provision isn't enough to actually address the needs.

Adam Friel:

So it's made inappropriate because of that. So I suppose the first lesson I ever learnt and thing I see throughout my cases is if you think there is a problem, if you think your child is not making progress or there's a need which hasn't been identified, don't just sit on your laurels, don't listen toadvice around you like your child won't get an EHCP plan. Go and talk to someone about it. Also don't underestimate yourself. We talked about being parents earlier, even I've made that mistake. So with my own son who is autistic, I think because of the work that I do, me and my wife I think underestimated his difficulties because we're so used to kind of, um, I'm so used to dealing with kind of complex cases that when a complex case was under my nose, I was a bit worried that I was looking at, I suppose a zebra when there was just a horse situation.

Adam Friel:

So, I was worried that I would be looking at my son's case and thinking it was more complex than it was. So I kind of, I think we were a bit late to kind of looking at getting his EHCP plan in place. And that was as a consequence of me kind of worrying that I was reading too much into the situation. In the end, we did get the EHCP plan quickly, so by the time my son was in nursery, he had an EHCP plan, but I think we could have even got it earlier than that and it was required because of the type of needs he has. I think the experience I had of that was very different from my experience of being in a classroom. So obviously I've been that child in the classroom who's been told they're stupid and they're not doing well and that was, you know, quite traumatic as a child anyway.

Adam Friel:

But being a parent is a different kind of kettle of fish all together. So when you're sitting in a meeting and the school is saying, we are worried that we can't meet your child's needs, you kind of sit there and you think, you know, if we don't get this right now, where is this going? And I suppose that kind of anxiety over your own child is something that you shouldn't just sit on. You should go and talk to someone about. So you can talk to someone like myself, a lawyer you can also go and talk to SENDIASS, which is a local charity group to help parents kind of understand their rights. There's lots of charities out there, there's also lots of information these days which can help a parent make those kind of judgments.

Adam Friel:

I feel really bad about plugging this, but I'm gonna do that anyway. Olivia, so we have a lot of information, for instance, online, which is accessible, it's free, it outlines the process, it talks about potential diagnosises that a child might, may, you may have a gut feeling that your child, for instance might be autistic or dyslexic, but don't quite understand how that diagnosis works. We've been working a lot on providing that information through podcasts and also through Facebook lives on our Facebook page and our Instagram page. We know well, I know that a lot of parents I think sit there and worry about this stuff and don't feel they can talk to other people about it because they're not going through that journey. And it's actually quite uncommon for I think a parent to know other parents who are going through that journey, who are like their friends.

Adam Friel:

It's very uncommon that they, they have that person to turn to. And what always worries me is a parent in that situation may be too embarrassed to go and ask other people. So that the things that we've been trying to do provide that kind of information online is to ensure that a parent might be sitting in the back of their room, or at home and they can have a look at it and get a better understanding of maybe what's happening with their own child and how things are moving forward. The other thing I should say is we, I think often we can almost gaslight ourselves at making things in our head seem less than they are. So I think in my son's case for instance we kind of knew he was autistic but we weren't that quite ready in our head to come to that conclusion, I know that is a corny thing to say.

Adam Friel:

But I think we were on a journey ourselves at the time when we were going through that, which meant we tried to explain the way he was by saying, oh well, you know, maybe we're not disciplined enough as parents. Maybe we're not kind of producing enough boundaries at home or you know, we sat there and said, oh you know, I'm dyslexic. I got <laugh> suspended or expelled for biting. My son's doing similar things so maybe he's very like me and he'll as he grows older, he'll kind of grow out of those kind of difficulties. And always recognizing that maybe because your journey was like that as a child, often kids with special educational needs, one of their parents might have needs themselves doesn't mean that your child will to do the same. So if you are anxious and you are concerned about it, it's always really worth going, doing your research, talk to someone, charity, someone like myself or kind of looking at that information online.

Adam Friel:

We do live in a great age of technology and there's a lot more information out there now than there is ever has been, which parents can just access by going online and kind of, I suppose learn more about needs and also about the process. It is a difficult process. It does take time, but I, I think with most parents, if they feel that their child is not making progress and they feel that they may need support in line with an EHCP plan, the earlier you start that process, the better intervention, early intervention is so key to kind of good outcomes in terms of education and to later life. So that's kind of where I really go with things.

Dr Olivia Kessel:

Adam, thank you for sharing your insight today through your personal story and that of your son. I wish I had spoken to you years ago as a parent, you know, if your child is not progressing in the education system and your words to trust yourself and start that ball rolling sooner rather than later is really powerful.

Dr Olivia Kessel:

Thank you. Send Parenting Tribe for joining us. You are incredible parents. If you're joining us for the first, first time, make sure you subscribe to the show. Next week Adam will be joining us to discuss the process of applying for an educational healthcare plan and some of the challenges you'll face as a parent dealing with your local authority. Definitely not an episode to miss. Please also after the show visit send parenting.com to get access to links for further information to help you decide whether your child needs an educational healthcare plan. Wishing you and your children a peaceful week ahead and looking forward to you joining us next week.