EP 103: Dealing With Conflict At Home with Sarah Fisher
Speaker Names
Dr Olivia KesselHost
00:06
Welcome to the Send Parenting Podcast. I'm your neurodiverse host, dr Olivia Kessel, and, more importantly, I'm mother to my wonderfully neurodivergent daughter, alexandra, who really inspired this podcast. As a veteran in navigating the world of neurodiversity in a UK education system, I've uncovered a wealth of misinformation, alongside many answers and solutions that were never taught to me in medical school or in any of the parenting handbooks. Each week on this podcast, I will be bringing the experts to your ears to empower you on your parenting crusade. Before we start with the episode, I'd like to invite you to become a member of our Send Parenting what's Up? Community. It's a private space designed just for us. Parenting neurodiverse children can come with its own set of challenges, but it's also full of incredible moments of joy and growth. So I wanted to create a space where we can come together as neurodiverse parents to connect, share experiences and offer support to one another with no judgment and a lived in understanding. If you're a neuro navigator like me and have felt alone on this journey, then this is the community for you. Join us as we navigate this unique journey together. Join us as we navigate this unique journey together. The link can be found in the show notes or you can direct message me on 078-569-15105, and I can personally add you in, looking forward to hearing from you in the community.
01:44
Christmas is tomorrow and if your household is anything like mine, managing emotions and conflict at home can definitely escalate in the holiday period. Today I'm going to share with you a recording from our 100th episode Celebration Week with Sarah Fisher. She's an adoptive mom and author of Connective Parenting, looking at how we can use NVR or non-violent resistance, to cope with conflict with our children at home. Her early Christmas gift to us is strategies that can help us deal with that conflict by changing our reactions and our responses. It seems simple, but it definitely takes practice. But the proof is in the proverbial Christmas pudding. When you start to see a decrease in the amounts of emotional and violent episodes and outbursts, it shifts the focus from your child to what you can actually do. Definitely worth a listen. So welcome, sarah. It is such a pleasure to have you come back to join us to celebrate this live event for the 100th episode of the Send Parenting podcast. I mean a hundred episodes. I remember being excited when there were 10. I know, and.
Sarah FisherGuest
02:49
Jo, it is such an achievement as well. So I'm really pleased to be back to talk to you. And, yeah, a hundred episodes is you know, that's an achievement. That's really good yeah it is.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
02:58
I'm shocked and your episode that we did. I think it was in February of this year. I'm shocked and your episode that we did. I think it was in February of this year. It was episode 59. It was so popular because the topic was basically emotional dysregulation and violent outbursts, which is something that I hear a lot from parents. I experience it myself and it's something you're ashamed of and you don't want to talk about it, so it's something you kind of hide, but it's something that is a very common thread among neurodiverse parents. So it was lovely to hear about your book and about, you know, connective parenting and how you use the NVR, which stands for nonviolent resistance approach, and it was just. I think you know it's changed my life, your advice, and I think it's also changed a lot of my listeners' advices. So thank you. Advices I don't think that's a word.
Sarah FisherGuest
03:44
We like that word, it works.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
03:47
But so I thought you know, because there will be people who have joined the event today who won't have heard that podcast, but I'd recommend going back and listening to it. But could you just take us a little bit through your journey with your son and how that then led you to Connective Parenting and NVR.
Sarah FisherGuest
04:01
Of course. So I'm an adoptive mum, as you know. I've got a very nearly 18 year old, which I can't quite get my head around. A few weeks to go. It's really scary.
04:12
He moved in when he was seven and had you know, obviously he'd come to adoption. He'd had a really difficult start in life and when he moved in he moved from a very busy, loving foster home to my house, which is just me and him and a couple of totally mad cats, as you know, running around and it was obviously a real shock to him. But he'd also moved to a different part of the country, very different part of the country, to a quiet household with just a mom, with one adult and just that. I'm now part of a family and being all the you know the emotions around being adopted, let alone anything else, but also all of his trauma. We had a really difficult start, really difficult start. He was very aggressive, um, verbally and physically, and it just kind of got worse. And you know, I'm really, really clear that that is not him. He's not a horrible child. No child who is violent and aggressive is a horrible child.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
05:07
They just got, and that should be something that, yeah, every parent needs to know, because that's your deepest fear, isn't it?
Sarah FisherGuest
05:12
it is whether it's you know and it's you know. What have I done wrong? Why is my child doing this? Is is a. It's really hard and to to say that to somebody you know my child is hitting me or my child is whatever, is really really difficult, because we are full of shame, we are full of judgment. You know it must be my fault. We all know parents who will have been judged because of their child's behavior or that their child is fine at school. So therefore it must be your parenting because they're not doing this at school. You're like no, it's not my parenting, it's my child. You know they're struggling, they need help.
05:46
So we went through this for a while and you know this is what 10 years ago and over 10 years ago now, there was very little support around them. People were talking about it, but not in the way they do now. You know which is amazing. It's so good. It's much more in the open and I know it's not totally in the open, but it is more than it was back then. And I was really lucky after about nine months of kind of saying help, what do I do? Because I naively went into parenting thinking I've got this all I know what I'm doing, it'll be fine. I can do this all by myself, not a problem.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
06:19
Yeah.
Sarah FisherGuest
06:20
And oh the joys of naivety and self-belief.
06:22
And we sort of went through it and it got. You know I was fortunate to have the most amazing school that got it and I know that a lot of parents, you know, don't have that, but they were. I truly believe that first six months. If it wasn't for them, I don't know whether we'd be where we are now. You know their support for my son and for me was amazing. I will be eternally grateful to the staff.
06:47
After about nine months, my social worker said I found this day. It's NVR. I don't really know about it, but it talks about violence. Why don't you go? I was like whatever. You know, when you're just like any straw I can find, I'm grabbing at it right now. And it was and I know we overuse the word sometimes, but it felt life-changing. I literally felt like I had found a way of parenting that made so much sense to me and worked with my brain.
07:10
I came out of a room with I remember I can never, you know when you just sort of. I remember the room. I remember there were a lot of parents. In my head there's at least 50 parents in there, possibly a lot more, but I remember coming out thinking I'm so lucky. I'm only being hit and kicked by my then eight-year-old and I was like, hold on a minute, that's not right, you know, because there are parents in there with teenagers with knives and pulling you know much more significant levels of violence. I started implementing the approach by myself at home, from my notes, you know, because there wasn't this kind of support around then and I was like, oh, this really works, you know. And six months later Irained um and decided, right, that's it, I need to get this out to other parents, I need to push this out there. So I made the decision to retrain and did all the advanced training as it was back then. It's very similar now actually, um, and we haven't had violence since then. Oh, I say we haven't had violence. We've had the odd stroppy teen moment.
08:05
I'm not saying, you know, I haven't got a totally chilled out, you know, relaxed teen. I've got a neurodiverse, traumatized teen. But you know I'm not, I'm not being hit, kicked, punched, you know none of that is happening and it's. I still parent this way now and it's really important. It's not like something you do for a period of time and that stops the problems and then you can go back to I don't know more traditional forms of parenting. I still do it now and, yeah, absolutely we still have arguments at times and things that you know he's a teen, he's going through the, you know hormones and all that kind of stuff, and I've since been diagnosed with ADHD, which explains a lot of mine. But it's changed and it was life changing and that was what eight years ago that I retrained pretty much actually to the to the week pretty much, bizarrely, um, and I now, since then I've been teaching and telling it to you know, anybody I can get to listen because yeah, I think then you know it, it just it, it, it.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
09:02
It's a way of looking at it differently and, um, you know, I'd love if you it's. I mean, you've got a whole book on it, that's a whole. You know philosophy, but if you could encapsulate, for the people that are listening right now, just the kind of bare bones of what it is, because it changes the focus. I think for me, it changes the focus from trying to change your child to changing how you react to your child, and that was, as you say, life-changing because it flips. It flipped the switch for me as well.
Sarah FisherGuest
09:28
Yeah, absolutely so. You're absolutely right. We are focusing on us as the adults how do I react and interact with my child to bring about the change, rather than trying to force change on them. So we create a stronger connection and helping them to believe in themselves and understand themselves by our reactions, at helping them to believe in themselves and understand themselves by our reactions.
09:54
If our reactions are shouting back at our child, then we all know that just becomes a big shouting match and everyone ends up shouting at everybody and it doesn't go anywhere helpful, whereas actually if we can stay calm, stay regulated I use the analogy of being harbour walls If we can be their harbour walls and say you've got these big emotions, but it's all right, I'm here for you, I can put my big, strong harbour walls around you and I can help you with these emotions Then they become more able to learn how to manage their own emotions and safely express them, because it's not the emotion that's the problem, it's how they're expressing it. And we do that by managing ourselves as the adult and focusing on our regulation, our emotional regulation, and how we respond to our child. So really looking beneath what we see, rather than you've just shouted at me. So, bang, I'm going to tell you off.
10:36
Ok, what's going on? What? What Not saying? I don't like the way, why, particularly, but I'm wondering why you just shouted Let me understand what's going on for you or why you just hit me. You must be really distressed or anxious or worried and you deal with that rather than be telling them off for what they've just done.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
10:53
Which can be challenging, especially if you're neurodiverse yourself and your emotional regulation is a little bit haywired as well. I haven't been diagnosed, but I definitely suffer from that as well. So it's taking that step back and looking for the root cause, which I think you know, instead of just responding absolutely and the action, yeah, and when we look for the root cause, we actually create change in the longer term as well.
Sarah FisherGuest
11:17
You know, when in the moment we just focus on regulation rather than asking them eight million questions to understand why they're doing what they've done which we all do but we all know totally overloads their brain and they can't answer anyway, then everybody gets more stressed because they're not answering and you're not getting the answers and it just all gets worse if we just invert commas and I know that's so easy to say and not always easy to do but if we just focus on the regulation and if we need to focus on keeping everybody safe, you know, depending on kind of what happens in those moments, then afterwards we can talk to them and connect, reconnect with them as well.
11:50
Because actually if you've ended up arguing, you need that reconnection. We've all done that with friends where, maybe, or partner, where you've had an argument and you pretend it never happened and you sort of do that weird dance around afterwards until it kind of all just solves itself. And we can't do that with our kids. They need us to reconnect and then potentially, as part of that, even when they're able, ready, to start talking about emotions. You know, it's okay to be angry, but hitting me isn't okay. Let's think about how else you can express it, you know, because we want them getting their emotions out, not holding them in here, because that's not healthy either, um, and you know, the more we do that, the more we move forward and it's, it's.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
12:29
It's just a different way than most of us were raised.
Sarah FisherGuest
I would say yeah, very, very different. I think you know most of us were raised with rules and consequences, not talking, not even talking about emotions, potentially, because you know our parents didn't talk about emotions so they wouldn't have talked about emotions with us not recognizing how we feel, not thinking, thinking about regulation, and you know we've got a huge mental health crisis in this country. We need to help our children understand themselves. It's really important. But, going back to what we were saying at the start, that comes from us understanding ourselves. You know we've got to be willing to look at our own emotions and how we're managing them. And whether you're a neurodivergent parent or actually menopausal, I would say as well, that does not help matters either.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
13:12
Sometimes All I can say is thank God for HRT Absolutely. But actually more adult women are getting diagnosed around menopause because levels of estrogen fluctuation can make neurodiverse challenges more challenging.
Sarah FisherGuest
13:28
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And yes, the same for me. I wasn't.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
13:31
And then combine a prepubescent, you know a child going through puberty as well. Yeah, it's just, it's a lovely combination.
Sarah FisherGuest
13:37
Yeah, it's a really really lovely combination.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
13:42
But you know what's great is you both grow through this process of doing it. You know you grow as a person and it helps you not just with your child. It helps you with the person that you're driving down the street who's getting angry. You know it helps you look at life with a different lens, I think, when people are expressing not nice emotions.
Sarah FisherGuest
14:00
No, absolutely not. You know, one of my beliefs around this is this is um, it's a way of life, not just a way of parenting. Yeah, you know, and my son now can de-escalate me. You know, when I'm the one going up, sometimes he's like step back from the computer, mom, take a deep breath, go upstairs, go for what do you do, what you need to do. When you calm down, then we'll come back and we'll carry on and I'm like all right, and there's a little bit it's like what are you doing? Don't do that. And I'm like, oh, actually that's quite good. I'm really proud of him. He knows what to do, because it's a life skill, isn't it? We all meet people who are angry or dysregulated, whether that's with us or just something else that's happened. If we can manage it and support them, that's an amazing skill. So, yeah, I think it's really. You know, it's good that the more it becomes our way of life, the better it is for everybody.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
14:49
Yeah, it's a much more empathetic and understanding approach, and it's. It never works to meet someone in their dysregulation, with your dysregulation, which can often happen, and that is just a recipe for a disastrous situation.
Sarah FisherGuest
15:02
It is, it is, and I think, as I have the scars to the top, and I think it's really important that we're not trying to be perfect parents either.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
Sometimes, we can't hold it together.
Sarah FisherGuest
You know we cannot, because we're up to here already with a whole load of stuff and that's just the straw that breaks the camel's back, as it were, and you just be like, nah, I've gone. But then if we can reconnect afterwards and say, do you know what? I got that wrong? You know, I'm really sorry. It teaches them it's okay to make mistakes. It teaches our kid it's okay not to be perfect.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
15:37
And if I get it wrong, this is what I do, I know. I mean, I had a situation with my daughter last night she's the third night waking me up and she's just waking me up to put her back to bed and I was upset because I didn't have enough sleep and I was a bit angry with her and I had to calm myself down. And I did and put her back to bed and waited for her and the next I was, like you know, in the morning, sat her down. I said you know what, mommy wasn't the greatest mommy yesterday evening. I said I was tired and I was, you know, it's the third night and I'm really sorry.
15:58
And she goes, that's okay, you know, and she goes. I understand now and you know it was. It was good, you know, because I I I wasn't, you know behave the way I wished I had, you know and you know, and she's like well, mommy, I've kind of gotten into the habit of waking you up again and maybe I need to stop that too. And I said well, that would be lovely.
16:25
We'll see tonight if that happens or I get a retake on being a better parent.
Sarah FisherGuest
16:33
Isn't that the beauty? That actually, when we're doing this, we're teaching our kids these skills without teaching it to them. If that makes sense? Yeah, we're just modeling it and it just becomes the way we do things.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
16:43
And actually that's where they learn. They don't learn by anything you tell them. I found it's more you know.
Sarah FisherGuest
16:48
Yeah, definitely don't learn by anything you tell them as a parent.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
16:53
And it gets worse, I hear, as they get older, so I'm looking forward to that yeah.
Sarah FisherGuest
16:57
Teenage years are lovely.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
16:58
Honestly, You're going to love them 13 is already proving to be an interesting time. Yeah, Now I think you know, since we spoke in February, that you've had a conference, haven't you, with Connective Parenting. We did.
Sarah FisherGuest
17:13
We had our annual conference in May, which we do online, and we had some amazing speakers again this year. We are also so lucky of who comes to talk.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
17:23
Just thinking about key pieces of wisdom that you could share with us.
Sarah FisherGuest
17:29
So many, so many. We had some really interesting conversations around neurodiversity, particularly burnout as well, and really working at the child's pace to recover, you know, and doing what works, which can feel, having gone through that as a mum, very, very counterintuitive because you just want them to get better, you know. So, really thinking about that, but also how we it's interesting actually.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
17:51
I'd love to unpick that a little bit more, because I have a SEM parenting community as well and that's come up quite a bit of the burnout after school and how to deal with it. Was there any like practical advice that they-.
Sarah FisherGuest
18:01
So I think there's two different bits. She was the conference we were particularly focusing on that, more longer term burnout, you know where. Maybe they just life is too much. And she was saying really work with A their sensory needs, accept that they might just need to lie on their bed all day in a darkened room because bright lights we know a lot of children, bright lights is too much and too stimulating. Think about when we're connecting. How do we do it? That isn't you've got to come out for a walk because you've been in your bedroom all day.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
18:30
Yeah.
Sarah FisherGuest
18:33
And I thought that's really powerful, isn't it? Because how often do we think we need to spend time with you, so you need to come and do what I want to do or what I think is healthy for you.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
18:40
But actually, if they can't cope, with it.
Sarah FisherGuest
18:42
That's not connection, that's not building presence, that's not helping them feel better about themselves.
18:47
It's possibly making them feel worse because there's more pressure and they can't do what they know everybody around them wants to do. So it might be just going and sitting in their room with them, even if you're reading your own book and they're doing their own thing. You're being present with them in their space where they feel safe. And for me it really resonated because I think I know when my son was going through that, I was sometimes like come on, you've got to get outside, you've got to get out, you've got to get out your bedroom, you know. But actually she was like just go at their pace, not at the pace you think they need to go at. And of course, there's so much pressure on us as parents isn't there to get them back to school or to get them doing whatever it is they need to do. Um, so that was really crucial, I think, for me the post school thing, when they come back, really thinking about their sensory needs and helping them to get the stress out of their system safely yeah, and whether that is again just, you know, an hour's screen time where they don't have to talk to anybody and they can just lie on their bed and watch the screen or the telly and whatever it is and giving them that quiet space or whether they actually need to go and run around the garden playing football, because that's how they get it out of their system. It's how does your child get that stress out of their system and help them do that in whatever way works for them as well, rather than just come on, sit in homework time, let's get on. We're doing this. We're doing that because obviously that's just even more on top of their heads.
20:02
We also talked. We had a brilliant lady called Kit Messenger come talking about language and neurodiversity and thinking about the words we use as well, which was really interesting, um, and there was quite a lot around language and communication across the kind of the two days and how we connect through language. So if you have a child who maybe doesn't understand, maybe we need to do more reflection ourselves. What can I do to help my child when they're struggling, rather than talking to them about it afterwards? Because if they can't talk, if they're not connected to their emotions or they don't have the language're not connected to their emotions or they don't have the language that they, you know to be able to tell you what's happening, actually we can create more distress for them by trying to make them try and do something that they just don't have the ability and may never have the ability to do, depending on their needs.
20:46
So, being that that reflective parent, I think it's, you know, and kind of thinking, okay, what can I do that might help my child, you know, when they come home from school, not having the radio blaring full blast in the kitchen, because that's just a sensory overload, or making sure the lights are dimmed in the living room or the curtains are pulled so it's not really bright sunlight in there, or you know, what could I do that might help them. And also, how can I help them regulate more throughout the day, throughout the evening? Um, so, yeah, so many things, so many things, but really that focus on connection, but doing it differently for different children.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
21:20
You know and how, and I imagine it can even be different in families because you've got different children with different needs, as well, absolutely, and that you know I have a real belief, as I know you do, that one size does not fit everybody.
Sarah FisherGuest
21:32
You know you've got to and you can have two children with a diagnosis of autism. They are not the same. Yeah, you know we can't say, well, they've both got the same diagnosis, therefore it'd be the same thing. They don't, they have the same diagnosis, but it's, you know, different needs within that and really making sure we're personalizing it. But that all comes back to looking after us because, as we both know, when we're exhausted, when we're being woken up early in the morning, it's a lot harder to, you know, be creative to think about what our child needs, because our brain just does not have the capacity to do it.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
22:02
um, so, you know, really going back to that basics as well, um, yeah, you've got it it's, it's oxygen mass, kind of uh, um, it's so true and it's so hard because we are, we are pushed to our limits as moms, often in terms of, you know, working, uh, having family, having pets, having you know the the buck, you know the laundry doesn't wash itself, sadly, no although sometimes I think my son's been wearing it so long, it might walk its way to the laundry basket, you know, or the washing machine, you never know.
Sarah FisherGuest
22:36
Um, wishful thinking, I think, on my part, um, but I I think we forget the importance of looking after ourselves and we don't put ourselves on the top of the list because it's maybe seen as selfish, we don't have time, we don't prioritize it, but actually we can't be the parent we want to be if we're not at least on our list, even if we're not at the top yeah, no, absolutely it's it.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
22:58
It's crucial to find, to find the things that de-stress yourself so that you can be be that calm person that you need to be. So I, I'm a hundred percent believer in that and you know, luckily for me, exercise is what really calms me down, and before having my daughter, it was hard to you know I exercise was about weight loss and I wasn't that motivated, but it is the magic sauce that I need to stay calm with my daughter. So you know it's got a double benefit because it benefits me as well. Yeah, anything, it depends what it is for you.
Sarah FisherGuest
23:30
Yeah, yeah, and I think it's important we're doing because also that's modeling to our kids. You know, that's regulation, that's managing our emotions, and if we're saying to our child you've got to learn how to do yours, but I'm not going to manage mine, why, why would I do something you're not doing?
Dr Olivia KesselHost
23:43
My daughter will even say to me mommy, I think it's time for you to go for a run now.
Sarah FisherGuest
23:48
Subtle hint. Thank you, daughter.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
23:54
So what's coming up for you as we look forward to 2025 in the connective parenting space?
Sarah FisherGuest
24:00
So we have got. Obviously, our annual conference is back next may. Uh, for the two days, as always. Um, we are.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
24:06
That's rapidly approaching.
Sarah FisherGuest
24:07
Actually it is it is, it's time seems to go really fast, um, so, yeah, that's the beginning of may again next year. Um, I always love it, it's always two brilliant days. We are doing lots and lots of training, still more and more, which is great, and more and more people who work with families wanting to find out about the approach and learn about it so they can do it with the families they work with. Um, which I just think is, you know, we're starting to turn the tide, and not just me, you know all of us with the work we do. We're starting to turn the tide and I think that's hopefully going to help more families. Um, we are starting to do some in-person events again next year, which kind kind of we've done a little bit, but I really want to get out there and meet people in person again, you know, and we do a bit of it, but we're going to be doing a lot more of that next year, which, again, I'm really excited about.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
24:52
Yeah, it is different meeting people in person than online, so it makes it more accessible, probably having it online, but there is something special about meeting in person.
Sarah FisherGuest
25:07
Yeah, special without meeting in person? Yeah, and I think just you know, meeting other parents in person who get it and you can sit in a room with them and know that everybody understands you know um, so, yeah, so just lots of different things. The team's growing, we're working more internationally, which is amazing, um, doing you know all of those things. So, yeah, it's really, it's really exciting. Trips abroad yeah, I was working on that. I worked, worked with a team in New Zealand beginning of the summer, which is, you know, 9pm to about 2am.
25:26
I was a little bit like, but it was amazing and I was like yeah, if you need me to come over, I wouldn't have a problem jumping on a plane.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
25:36
It's a country I've always wanted to visit, so yeah.
Sarah FisherGuest
25:37
Yeah, I know.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
25:44
I was really like, yeah, this would be much better in person. Now I wanted to also address some of the questions that people have asked about it. You know, one of the things and I think we kind of touched upon it, but I'd like to unpick it a bit more is you know when your child is exhibiting, you know, violent behavior. You know, some of us and this is me and other parents as well it's that fear that they're going to be. You know this is a, you know, a pipeline to you know, being a criminal or we almost catastrophize what's going to be happening. And I think you know, I'd love to hear from your lens, in terms of putting parents' minds at ease. That's a big one, isn't it?
Sarah FisherGuest
26:17
I think there's two parts to that I think.
26:19
Firstly, when we worry about the future, we're changing it, and the biggest thing we can do to change the future, be ours or our children's, is think about what can I do right now that changes the future. So worrying about it just creates anxiety and will actually impact how we connect with our children right now, how all of our responses. I know when I'm anxious, when I'm worried, my responses are different. So if and I know this is so easy to say try and put the like, not, not, not worry about it because you're going to worry about it, but kind of go gee, what if that's what I'm worried about, what do I do right now that potentially changes that? And if we can be more present now and more connected now, we can start to create change. And that's really empowering.
26:59
And I think you know and I've worked with I've got a family I'm working with at the moment. I've been working with them for a couple of years. Their child is 16. And you know I talked to mum the other day and she said if you'd asked me two years ago whether we'd be where we are now, I would not have believed you, and it's by no means perfect, but we have come so far, from his levels of aggression verbally, physically, his control, all of that to actually them having a good relationship. And yes, he's still, you know, not always as calm as he could be, but he's really aware of it.
27:33
They're having amazing conversations about emotions and regulating and all of those things, and it's believing that we can change it. And yes, it's not going to cure our children you know we're not them of adhd, because that's, you know, not going to happen or any of that stuff but it's, how can we help them live their best lives and not end up in prison because they haven't learned to regulate their emotions, you know, in a safe way? Um, yeah, but we do that by working. What can I do now, today, that helps my child, you know?
Dr Olivia KesselHost
28:00
yeah, connect with them right now and I think it's also super important to get your family on board, and your, you know, I, you know, I just had lunch with my father the other day. He's like you know, if, if, if this continues, what kind of future is she going to have? And then you're like, ah, but you know, it's also important that he behaves in the same way. And so there's also a journey for our loved ones and our friends to understand how they meet your child in that connection, and that can be challenging too. It's challenging for us, but it's even harder, I'd say, for I don't want to say outsiders, because they're part of your family or your friend circle, but sometimes they feel like outsiders.
Sarah FisherGuest
28:33
I think it is, and also, if you're not living it every day, you don't really. You don't see the good either and you don't see the progress, like I said to my father.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
28:43
You don't see the progress, like I said. I said to my father you don't see how far she's come in the last year. She's done amazing things. You, you just don't see that. You're just seeing the. You know the the one or two times and you know that she was ill at the time.
Sarah FisherGuest
28:53
So you know it's, it's, you know these things happen, yeah and I think also, you know, if you are seeing your family member or your loved one being hit or sworn out or shouted out or just, you know, being treated really badly, it's very hard to not respond. You know that's not good enough way, you know, because you, you care about that person. You don't want them to experience that and so it's very hard. I think it's very hard not to get frustrated and annoyed and think they just got to stop because they love you, you know.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
Yeah and it's a really nice way of looking at it, and it's taking them on that journey as well, isn't it?
Sarah FisherGuest
29:27
And it's so different, I think particularly, you know, for our parents' generation. It's so different. Most of them wouldn't have been diagnosed with autism or ADHD or anything. It would have been naughty boys. They're just being naughty. They'd have dropped out of school early, and you don't mean they wouldn't, it wouldn't. It's not seen in the way it is now and that support wasn't there at all.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
29:47
Well, I would say that my father definitely has ADHD and what's interesting is he's 82 and he still can get really emotionally dysregulated and storm out from a perceived whatever. And I'm, like you know, mirror there. But it's also challenging for other you know listeners who've said you know, like you know. It's also challenging for other you know listeners who've said, you know, like you know, it's my partner's second marriage. You know he's a police officer. He sees this behavior. It's really challenging for me because he doesn't want to step in, because it's going to escalate it, which fair enough, it's a good point, you know. And so the whole family kind of has to come on board with the philosophy and the way forward.
Sarah FisherGuest
30:23
Yeah, they do Absolutely, and I think that that's a really good point about you know, if you're the parent dealing with the scenario and the other parent steps in the middle, it doesn't help. It actually disempowers the parent who is dealing with it and in the child's eyes you know, if it's mom I'm having an argument with and dad steps in, well, mom can't manage me, Mom can't manage my emotions, Mum's not safe, Not in a she's doing something bad way, but in an actually mum can't keep me safe way. So I think it's a really powerful point for parents If the other parent is dealing with a child, don't step in unless you need to or they need to tag out. Don't kind of, you know, take over if that makes sense, Absolutely In an unhealthy way.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
31:06
Well, we are almost at the end of our 30 minute catch up. I can't believe it. It's gone by so quickly. I could speak for hours.
Sarah FisherGuest
31:12
Sarah, you have a great Facebook community as well, and people find that just by searching Connective Parenting, yeah, so if you search Connective Family, you'll find the page and you'll get the link to the group. And yeah, it's a really a really. We share tips and ideas. We share it on our page, but I know a lot of parents would prefer to talk in a more closed community. So in the group um, and we share tips and ideas in there all the time um and people get it. It's a really. I'm really proud that we've built a really supportive community, you know, a judgment-free space where you can say, oh help, what do I do about this um? And get that help and support that we need. So, yeah, anybody's welcome to join um. But yeah, if you come and find, connect your family on facebook and then you'll find the link to the group.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
31:51
It's the easiest thing that's brilliant, because you feel alone, you feel embarrassed. You don't want to admit it, even to family members or other people. So to have that space where you can talk to others who get it and don't judge you is is is worth gold dust.
Sarah FisherGuest
32:02
It is, and you can post anonymously as well, because I know some people are worried about posting, so you can post anonymously. You can use the Facebook anonymous posting as well. Um, if you don't want to, you know, put your name up there.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
32:13
Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Sarah, and uh, I look forward to coming back for our 200th episode.
Sarah FisherGuest
32:19
It'll be lovely. Thank you so much, um, it's been great talking to you again excellent.
Dr Olivia KesselHost
32:23
Bye. Thank you for listening. Send parenting tribe. If you haven't already, please click on the link in the show notes to join us in the private send parenting what's up community. It's been wonderful to be able to communicate with everyone in the community and for us to join together to help each other, to navigate challenges and to also celebrate successes. Wishing you and your family a really good week ahead, thank you.
18:54